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General Chit Chat & Queries - no commercial links => General Chat => Topic started by: Stone Free on February 13, 2018, 18:34:07 pm

Title: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Stone Free on February 13, 2018, 18:34:07 pm
There's an interesting article in El Pais in English about Spain's concerns over Brexit:

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/01/12/inenglish/1515755694_911389.html


There's also an older article titled "Spain’s food industry under threat from Brexit"

https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/11/02/inenglish/1478076634_140712.html

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: meggie on February 13, 2018, 19:39:44 pm
Perhaps we just need to hold our nerve in negotiations rather than buckling to their demands.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 13, 2018, 21:51:18 pm
i think next time that french geezer tries to hold us over a barrel we point blank refuse any more negoations

make them beg us.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 13, 2018, 22:21:20 pm
I think the EU have convinced themselves with their own spin that we need them more than they need us. Time to say enough is enough & just tough it out !!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 14, 2018, 09:10:26 am
May is a remainer at heart. Don't expect her to walk away from anything or hold anyone to ransom. We will more than likely get a deal of some description, but it will be on EU terms and I think most of those who voted to leave will find it a rather unsatisfactory outcome.

Hope I'm wrong but I have no faith in this Tory government to deliver brexit as most of us leavers envisaged it should be.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on February 14, 2018, 11:39:02 am
It’s slways been clear that the EU would make life tough in us leaving, pity it wasn’t properly discussed during the campaign but then again, so many risks on both sides were simply brushed away. Now we need to make the best of it and that will require compromise 😎
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 14, 2018, 11:52:26 am
The fact is we do have good bargaining powers but we do not have a government with the guts to use them. We were not to know that at the time as Cameron made it clear out meant out.

There is a big difference between compromise and 'caving in' to unwarranted demands..
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: woe10 on February 14, 2018, 17:38:56 pm
Well, Spain and the rest of them should band together and give that "Wannabee Dictator", Michel Barnier, a good talking to and tell him to back off, or else.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: La apanada pair on February 14, 2018, 21:01:18 pm
I was a leaver and I honestly think it was the correct choice, but after seeing the poor effort and caving in that seems to have happened, I would now , if given the option change my vote, not because of any other reason but the poor efforts of this government, as unlikely it is, my opinion is that all the main parties should of had a candidate in the negotiations, between them they should of pulled together for the good of the country and worked out a good deal , No one party should have the responsibility of arranging a deal that effects all the people and every governing party now and in the future, but that won't happen, we will get a mediocre deal at best and have to continue to suffer for a good few years after we exit, ... such a good opportunity to improve things gone down the pan WELL DONE
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 14, 2018, 21:34:14 pm
Michel Barnier

we should remind him of the term "occupied France" and that he would be speaking german now if it wasnt for us the ungrateful POS
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ernie on February 14, 2018, 21:56:01 pm
have
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 15, 2018, 08:13:14 am
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Finews.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fget-brexit-wrong-back-dark-times-50s-rationing-says-food-industry-boss%2F&h=ATPeXfEQbTaUSRzUNEEUKNT1Sbd2X7eQcrVW9QtTBBzwe6jQBGTyu1KZBIyrfW5Csw5twLZWMSXcMo_zsswrX8V2Kk0abCEHArdab-sMmUEyCPTU9KMvb-bPa-R09qmuUrwRCs09K5zVscHOOv9ghktGjMaZ2l1NyFfZRaq4W08hkDe4PGaUm115YAMRw-eINYj45Mnr6hoyIpMnzJdNyVSuJLZ3jX93GYsvPDTEgWz25cNfp-qJEhxS1QL5kSPqNOw

A message from someone at the coal face.


And he has forgotten that through the late 50,s all of the sixties and the early part of the 70,s Britain was doing very well on their own I started working the the food industry in the mid 60,s and there was never ever a problem, we traded with Australia, New Zealand, The rest of The Commonwealth The USA, Canada and various South and Central American countries, with out rationing, and it will work again, next time you are in Mercadona, have a look at a lot of their product comes from, especially meat and fish, you will, sea names like Chile Uruguay etc.

That photograph is laughable, meant to show how it was in the 50,s, with product priced in decimal currency, and labels carrying barcodes????

I do not know what self respecting Store Manager would allow a photograph like that to be taken, unless

,A. His boss took it just before he sacked him?

.B. It was staged?

I will let you decide ::)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 15, 2018, 08:39:51 am
If you are concerned at living in a country in which brexit may affect your conditions of living then say so. Most people would be understanding of your worries. But don't try trawling out internet nonsense trying to promote another project fear as we've been there seen it and done it. If it didn't work for Cameron and Osborn it won't work now for anyone else. We know the truth..
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 15, 2018, 09:44:27 am
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Finews.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fget-brexit-wrong-back-dark-times-50s-rationing-says-food-industry-boss%2F&h=ATPeXfEQbTaUSRzUNEEUKNT1Sbd2X7eQcrVW9QtTBBzwe6jQBGTyu1KZBIyrfW5Csw5twLZWMSXcMo_zsswrX8V2Kk0abCEHArdab-sMmUEyCPTU9KMvb-bPa-R09qmuUrwRCs09K5zVscHOOv9ghktGjMaZ2l1NyFfZRaq4W08hkDe4PGaUm115YAMRw-eINYj45Mnr6hoyIpMnzJdNyVSuJLZ3jX93GYsvPDTEgWz25cNfp-qJEhxS1QL5kSPqNOw

A message from someone at the coal face.

uhh ohh, PROJECT FEAR!!!!!

you sure your british ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 15, 2018, 09:46:21 am
thing is project fear works on the lefties, cos they are easily scared.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: erik_tonny on February 15, 2018, 17:24:47 pm
Michel Barnier

we should remind him of the term "occupied France" and that he would be speaking german now if it wasnt for us the ungrateful POS

How old are you?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 17, 2018, 10:44:07 am
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brexit-costing-britain-200m-week-lost-growth-mark-carney-warns-1656619

and if true whos fualt is that ?

labour, blair and brown sold us tighter EU relationships but didnt tell us the full story when we voted, IE we have no democratic control over EU policy and thats why we left.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 17, 2018, 13:48:46 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43082963

You can spend as much time as you like Cherry picking Doom laden stories, and while I do not doubt that the facts they come out with are true, you have to see the bigger picture, { Sh+te I hate that phrase} There is and always was going to be uncertainty, both amongst business owners and customers which will make people apprehensive about investing in a business, or spending  if you are a customer, at the end of the day once a deal is done {and it will be } the situation will not be the same not worse not better but different, The UK will be free to trade where it wants govern it self and not support, countries that cannot/do not want to help themselves. or pay into the most corrupt but apparently legal  organisation the world has ever seen.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 17, 2018, 17:34:47 pm
Notice the Modus Operandi of the poster. Scour the internet for anything which may devalue our negotiating chances and just dump it without comment to try and create a point of view without debate.

Its quite sad to see British people including many political and establishment figures trying so damned hard to squeeze out any negatives they can find in order to scupper our chances of making a clean and efficient break from the EU. It's truly hard to understand the motives behind people who would sooner see their country (even if they live elsewhere ) go down the toilet than be proved wrong. Maybe sad is not the word, bizarre or even sickening might be the word I'm looking for.


My God.. thank the Lord these obnoxious defeatists weren't around in 40 - 45. Either Winston, with great justification, would have had them rounded up and imprisoned as collaborators ,....or if he failed as someone so rightly said before, we would all now be under a Europe dominated by another unelected unanswerable elite a thousand times worse than the corrupt EU.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 17, 2018, 18:58:39 pm
a more realistic view is advanced here by a columnist for a Gibraltar newspaper, who himself voted Remain but fully gets Brexit. His views are refreshing and interesting..

http://gibraltarpanorama.gi/15209/315697/a/brexit-is-no-walk-in-the-park-for-the-eu

 Wonder what Ashworth & co will come back with  ::)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 18, 2018, 09:17:59 am
https://quartzy.qz.com/1186616/brexitstamps-in-the-uk-savagely-funny-postage-stamps-channel-british-brexit-angst/
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 18, 2018, 10:27:58 am
Just another component of the scaremongers arsenal, but in joke form. But then project fear has always been a joke.  :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 18, 2018, 11:34:08 am
Just another component of the scaremongers arsenal, but in joke form. But then project fear has always been a joke.  :D



But then joke form is all some can actually manage. The ability to add to a proper debate is well beyond them.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 18, 2018, 12:07:16 pm
No doubt they will only be truly satisfied when the UK is bulldozed into a deal by Europe which exploits us economically and humiliates us Politically.  What a sorry shower of smug back stabbing nonentities.

Much as we might despise the EU for all it's arrogant failings, the rotten enemy that lies within us, who have done everything they possibly can to undermine their own country, deserve the greatest contempt. I hope they get their just desserts when all this is over.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 18, 2018, 13:16:44 pm
Brexit is more like a sitcom than a joke and now firmly into season two with no signs of being pulled from the airwaves.  You really need to lighten up because if you have not figured it out yet, nobody is going to be happy with the outcome.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 18, 2018, 13:36:59 pm
Like I said, Brexit is what it is. We get what we get...I'm quite chilled about that believe me. I will be more than happy with any outcome if we are out rather than in. What I can't lighten up about is the sniping defeatists who have such a low opinion of their own country they are happy to carry on being led like donkey's by a bunch of corrupt crooks across the channel. Now there's a topic for a sitcom if you really want one.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 18, 2018, 14:54:44 pm
see its only the people who didnt get a vote who are still crying over brexit.

ireland does well out of the EU deal, without us paying for them to tag along they will have to pay more to be part of that club
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 18, 2018, 15:39:52 pm
They are all going to have to dig a lot deeper in to their pockets VF..its the reason they are making such a big deal about us leaving. Money..or the lack of it always tends to focus minds more sharply. And boy will they be lacking it when we depart. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 18, 2018, 16:04:21 pm

ireland does well out of the EU deal, without us paying for them to tag along they will have to pay more to be part of that club


Last year was the first time,since they joined, that Ireland had to contribute to the EU funds. From next year their `membership fees` will rise and the amount they get back will correspondingly decrease. Be interesting to see the level of support once that fact starts to bite. There are many there who haven`t forgotten they voted against the Lisbon Treaty and were hauled over the proverbial barrel until they did vote for it!!

    Thats the attitude prevelent among the EU Elite and precisely why its taking so long to say Bye Bye.......
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 18, 2018, 16:05:09 pm
Brexit is more like a sitcom than a joke and now firmly into season two with no signs of being pulled from the airwaves.  You really need to lighten up because if you have not figured it out yet, nobody is going to be happy with the outcome.

Spot on. It will all end in tears. Although fish might be plentiful and cheap.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 18, 2018, 16:10:02 pm
Well we have already agreed to give the EU £40,000,000,000 to leave and are now figuring out how much to pay to stay in for a further two year and then how much to pay to get a trade deal.  As I said nobody is going to be happy. Only thing that is a fact is that that promise on the big red bus is never going to come true.

It is the constant sniping at people who disagree with one view or another that is dividing the UK.  The rest of the world looks on and shakes it head.  If you are counting on everyone agreeing with you to make it work or that is what is required you might as well give up now...just is not going to happen so good luck on that one.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 18, 2018, 16:59:44 pm
Talk about negativity. we don't need everyone to agree to make it work...just the one's that matter. And even if you don't agree...we are out, that's been made perfectly clear, so live with it and support your country to get the best deal possible. Unfortunately it's too much to ask of some people to show a little patriotism, loyalty and confidence in our ability to run our own affairs.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 18, 2018, 17:07:51 pm
If you are counting on everyone agreeing with you to make it work or that is what is required you might as well give up now...just is not going to happen so good luck on that one.

once you understand we would rather no deal, get out quick as we know we will be alright anyways,  only then will you start to see we have liberated europe before and we are doing it again now.

and when you count on us to come help you to make it work etc, we will, because we are not spiteful, we are nice :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 18, 2018, 17:32:53 pm
The problems on here, in a nutshell, are the ex pats, who didnt get a vote due to having left the UK too many years before and are fearful the Spanish might take a different view and change their, almost hitherto, colonial lifestyle..

  Meanwhile in the real world we just get on with life
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 18, 2018, 23:37:36 pm

ireland does well out of the EU deal, without us paying for them to tag along they will have to pay more to be part of that club


Last year was the first time,since they joined, that Ireland had to contribute to the EU funds. From next year their `membership fees` will rise and the amount they get back will correspondingly decrease. Be interesting to see the level of support once that fact starts to bite. There are many there who haven`t forgotten they voted against the Lisbon Treaty and were hauled over the proverbial barrel until they did vote for it!!

    Thats the attitude prevelent among the EU Elite and precisely why its taking so long to say Bye Bye.......

Dead right paully. They were sent back twice I think until they came up with an “acceptable result” in a supposedly “free” referendum.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 18, 2018, 23:42:04 pm
Talk about negativity. we don't need everyone to agree to make it work...just the one's that matter.

So are you saying if anyone doesn’t agree with your point of view “they don’t matter” ? Or have I taken that out of context?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 19, 2018, 07:43:23 am
Spitfire 58....I meant the only one's that matter are the negotiators and Government officials trusted with delivering Brexit. The referendum is done and dusted and the decision was leave. It doesn't matter what we all think now we have to get on with it and stop bickering , especially those trying to wreck our chances of a good exit deal.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 19, 2018, 07:48:32 am
Quote from I’vemovedon
My God.. thank the Lord these obnoxious defeatists weren't around in 40 - 45. Either Winston, with great justification, would have had them rounded up and imprisoned as collaborators



Real democracy in action
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 19, 2018, 08:15:31 am
It was either that or the Democratic Nazis. i suppose Lord Haw Haw was just exercising his Democratic rights. Maybe he thought so but he still got hanged for it.

Traitor or Democrat ?...huge difference.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 19, 2018, 08:20:38 am
Now don’t try getting out of what you wrote.
Like farage and borris your mouth is bigger than the brain that supposed to control it.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 19, 2018, 08:34:03 am
Oh how we all laughed at his wonderful wit. :D :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 19, 2018, 10:47:39 am
why is it dagwood always resorts to name calling or racism ?

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: sungod on February 19, 2018, 11:26:58 am
why is it dagwood always resorts to name calling or racism ?

I have been lurking on these forums for a while, and most times I have seen a mean degrading comment or a comment that makes fun of someone else.. It's him.. but it seems like the attitude here is "ahh that's just the way he is" and people are ok with it.

He's a wet blanket to this whole forum.

Cheers
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 19, 2018, 12:40:06 pm
Here’s another name for Viva ,General Patton.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 19, 2018, 13:33:12 pm
see its so dumb it tells itself there must be a collusion against it and all these people are the same person, becuase its done that kind of thing over the years to others and just expects others to do it, to it.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 19, 2018, 16:14:54 pm
He just can't bring himself to believe so many different people think he's a numpty. Better to assume they are all one and the same.  ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 19, 2018, 23:31:42 pm
puerto del sol complex ?

;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 20, 2018, 09:35:51 am
Hm Mad Max ? It could be a lot worse than that.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 20, 2018, 09:53:41 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/layoffs-arrive-in-brexit-britain-and-auto-workers-are-up-first/ar-BBJcEuL?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5618219/eu-students-owe-us-592million-and-brexit-means-we-may-never-get-it-back/

THE SUN!!!!!!! Really?? if you asked them how many zero,s are in a billion they would struggle, It is a comic.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 20, 2018, 09:56:21 am
"They fear that Brexit could lead to an Anglo-Saxon race to the bottom," Mr Davis will say.
"With Britain plunged into a Mad Max-style world borrowed from dystopian fiction. These fears about a race to the bottom are based on nothing, not history, not intention, nor interest.
"But while I profoundly disagree with them — it does remind us all that we must provide reassurance."

Well that is good to know.  The part that is really odd is this is just the flipside of Project Fear.  Basically it is not going to be punishingly bad, just really bad, or very, very bad, but not Mad Max bad...I feel so much better already.  I mistakenly thought that Brexit was going to make everything really, really good.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 20, 2018, 10:24:52 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/layoffs-arrive-in-brexit-britain-and-auto-workers-are-up-first/ar-BBJcEuL?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5618219/eu-students-owe-us-592million-and-brexit-means-we-may-never-get-it-back/

THE SUN!!!!!!! Really?? if you asked them how many zero,s are in a billion they would struggle, It is a comic.

To help any who can’t get their heads around this number, one billion seconds = 32 years.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 20, 2018, 11:32:16 am
"They fear that Brexit could lead to an Anglo-Saxon race to the bottom," Mr Davis will say.
"With Britain plunged into a Mad Max-style world borrowed from dystopian fiction. These fears about a race to the bottom are based on nothing, not history, not intention, nor interest.
"But while I profoundly disagree with them — it does remind us all that we must provide reassurance."

Well that is good to know.  The part that is really odd is this is just the flipside of Project Fear.  Basically it is not going to be punishingly bad, just really bad, or very, very bad, but not Mad Max bad...I feel so much better already.  I mistakenly thought that Brexit was going to make everything really, really good.

It may well make everything really really good. It couldn't make it any worse than to continue being overseen by an unaccountable, corrupt, arrogant organization which is supposed to be all for one and one for all ..but in all truth whose major members look after themselves first and the rest later. That's how it is and thats how it will always be...UK taxpayers being used as a cash cow to shore up EU finances and provide for member states who cannot or will not get their act together. And even worse to provide pensions,wages and expense accounts to hordes of faceless Eurocrats over the channel, far in excess of what they should be entitled to. It's a gravy train pure and simple and we need to get off.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 20, 2018, 11:33:12 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/layoffs-arrive-in-brexit-britain-and-auto-workers-are-up-first/ar-BBJcEuL?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5618219/eu-students-owe-us-592million-and-brexit-means-we-may-never-get-it-back/

THE SUN!!!!!!! Really?? if you asked them how many zero,s are in a billion they would struggle, It is a comic.

Yeah but the sports pages are really good. ;)

and no matter how bad it's still a better read than the Guardian.  :P
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: calculator on February 20, 2018, 11:35:16 am
I love the passive aggressive nature of this forum, lol.

In case any of you ever speak with Spaniards, it's important to note that a BILLION equates to a MILLION MILLION and not British/American THOUSAND MILLION.

It can be quite confusing!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 20, 2018, 11:52:55 am
I love the passive aggressive nature of this forum, lol.

In case any of you ever speak with Spaniards, it's important to note that a BILLION equates to a MILLION MILLION and not British/American THOUSAND MILLION.

It can be quite confusing!

I am aware of that, my comment indicates I doubt The Sun does ::)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Jamesy on February 20, 2018, 13:47:26 pm
Hm Mad Max ? It could be a lot worse than that.

But muddy, instead of dusty, with crops rotting in the fields as not picked up (labour at lower cost not available). Farmer in Cupar stated today will plant 15% led broccoli, coincides with % drop in EastEU labour available.

Food will become more expensive, but that is only the start of the domino effect => inflation up, £ down, UK citizens having to "buy" visa(s) to get to EU state(s).....
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 20, 2018, 14:14:18 pm
But all the crops got picked before we were bound to EU regulations. Why not now. It's a good incentive to the Government to get the lazy oiks off welfare and out working. It's doable if they have the will. That's a win win situation. Less welfare handouts, less immigration ,less overload on social services and less unknown criminal elements arriving from overseas.

£ down..for how long?

Nobody knows if there will be inflation after brexit as there has never been one before.

Who says we will have to buy visa's to visit Europe?. And even if we do they will have to buy one to come here. And we can start charging for their lorries to use our roads in addition.. just as ours have to pay tolls on theirs. Oh its not all one way traffic by any means, ...we need to stop listening to the EU negotiators and the establishment moaners who are all looking after their own backsides not ours.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 20, 2018, 15:08:16 pm
I love the passive aggressive nature of this forum, lol.

In case any of you ever speak with Spaniards, it's important to note that a BILLION equates to a MILLION MILLION and not British/American THOUSAND MILLION.

It can be quite confusing!
Someone’s got it ass ways
The old UK meaning of a billion was a million million, or one followed by twelve noughts (1,000,000,000,000). The USA meaning of a billion is a thousand million, or one followed by nine noughts (1,000,000,000).
How much is a billion? - Plain English ...
www.plainenglish.co.uk › budget › how-...

And one billion seconds is still 32 years. Get the calculator out
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 20, 2018, 18:30:51 pm
More like egg on your face ......
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 20, 2018, 18:38:59 pm
KFC is the next one to go down. 600 fast food places shut again due to lack of Polish drivers to deliver the chicken. They have now gone home. Egg on toast again tonight.



We should be rejoicing that KFC are closed. Such hiatus will be good for the nations health. Its total rubbish as food. Oh and nothing to do with just a shortage of Polish drivers, as this interview with the union seems to make clear  ;D

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/20/kfc-was-warned-about-switching-uk-delivery-contractor-union-says
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 20, 2018, 18:59:22 pm
Just another urban myth created by the 'blame brexit for everything and see if we can get away with it' brigade.

Keep dishing them out ...it's so enjoyable and satisfying to see them continually being proved false.  8)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: waggy on February 20, 2018, 21:25:49 pm
So, it looks like another referendum is on the cards. Any of you Bwrexiteers changed your minds for the next one?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 21, 2018, 09:25:44 am
So, it looks like another referendum is on the cards. Any of you Bwrexiteers changed your minds for the next one?


I presume you are referring to the so called `poll` in the ultra Remain Grauniad ???..No surprises there. It was Cameron himself said it was a referendum and not a neverendum. For that reason there won`t be one and for the avoidance of any doubt this Brexiteer would vote exactly the same way in such an unlikely event.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 21, 2018, 10:35:19 am
UK citizens having to "buy" visa(s) to get to EU state(s).....

and EU states having to "buy" visas to come here.

but they wont do that, EU doesnt have the balls to even try and force our hand.

remember, without UK there would be no EU, they know this, so do we.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 21, 2018, 12:37:02 pm
From BBC Online

"The UK has seen the strongest two-quarters of productivity growth since the recession of 2008, according to the latest data.

Output per hour rose 0.8% in the three months to December, the Office for National Statistics said. It follows the growth of 0.9% in the previous period.

There was also a better than expected rise in wages. Excluding bonuses, earnings rose by 2.5% year-on-year"

Strange none of the Doom mongers posted this ;) ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 21, 2018, 13:19:18 pm
The unemployment figures just out, although showing a slight increase in the total number of jobless, is still 123,000 up on this time last year or about 4% unemployed.

  Spain for instance, has an adult rate of over 16% and its youth rate has declined thankfully and now stands at a mere 37%  :o

  France meanwhile has a rate double that of ours with jobs growth mainly in the Metropolitan areas.

  Yup bad bad Brexit :-*
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 21, 2018, 13:48:34 pm
Big question is why do these remoaners feel the need to constantly look on the snippets of negativity as gospel and dismiss any good news as fake?. I assume they are British, and I assume they want the best for their country...then again maybe not, perhaps they just want whats best for them. Apart from the self servers who's wage packet and lifestyle rely directly or indirectly on the benevolence of the EU it really is hard to fathom their motives.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 21, 2018, 14:48:51 pm
Big question is why do these remoaners feel the need to constantly look on the snippets of negativity as gospel and dismiss any good news as fake?. I assume they are British, and I assume they want the best for their country...then again maybe not, perhaps they just want whats best for them. Apart from the self servers who's wage packet and lifestyle rely directly or indirectly on the benevolence of the EU it really is hard to fathom their motives.

most are not  british!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 21, 2018, 14:50:04 pm
This I believe is committed cash sums to be spent 2017/2018, and was posted on here by Windermere Golfer some time back, how anyone can look at the money that is being spent and what it is spent on, and still think remaining in the EU is a good thing baffles me.
€173 million for leadership in Space??? I thought the Yanks had achieved that 40+ Years ago.


(https://i.imgur.com/GvAgcws.png)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 21, 2018, 15:14:20 pm
That 173 million is probably just part of the vast sums that go missing each year. Or helps fill the pockets of Quango running Eurocrats enriching themselves with the proceeds of non jobs. It makes your blood boil.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 21, 2018, 16:13:44 pm
From BBC Online

"The UK has seen the strongest two-quarters of productivity growth since the recession of 2008, according to the latest data.

Output per hour rose 0.8% in the three months to December, the Office for National Statistics said. It follows the growth of 0.9% in the previous period.

There was also a better than expected rise in wages. Excluding bonuses, earnings rose by 2.5% year-on-year"

Strange none of the Doom mongers posted this ;) ;)

Very impressive figures indeed, as they should be.
The U.K. is still a fully functioning member of the EU and enjoying the benefits of that membership and will do so for the next 12 months at least.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 21, 2018, 17:37:35 pm
But Cameron and Osborne told us along with rest of their Establishment cronies who are supposed to be experts that a referendum vote to leave would have immediate financial consequences to the point the treasury would have to provide a cover budget to deal with the collapse in the economy.

It didn't happen did it. Or anything near it. In fact as those figures show...the complete opposite has taken place.

And the economy appears to be improving not just stagnating. Could this indicate a market confidence in leaving or did we just get lucky?

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 21, 2018, 17:56:52 pm
But Cameron and Osborne told us along with rest of their Establishment cronies who are supposed to be experts that a referendum vote to leave would have immediate financial consequences to the point the treasury would have to provide a cover budget to deal with the collapse in the economy.

It didn't happen did it. Or anything near it. In fact as those figures show...the complete opposite has taken place.

And the economy appears to be improving not just stagnating. Could this indicate a market confidence in leaving or did we just get lucky?


None of the above me thinks.
 No borders still in customs union,no barriers to free trade and the EU working normally.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 21, 2018, 18:50:17 pm
Yep EU working normally , our economy improving. Meaning the EU has no influence, but something else has. The threat of Brexit maybe?. No couldn't possibly be that.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 21, 2018, 18:59:56 pm
I thought Brexit is a reality not a treat
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 21, 2018, 19:04:33 pm
It's a treat for me that's true. LOL
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 21, 2018, 19:19:57 pm
It's a treat for me that's true. LOL

Sorry about that old chap. But I think you get me drift.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 21, 2018, 19:21:43 pm
I do
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 21, 2018, 19:44:46 pm
The vote for Brexit in 2016 was a massive shock to the Political system rather than the economic system, which had been hit in that way in 2008.Sadly that fool Carney in the Bank of England couldnt tell the difference and slashed interest rates, then had to raise them sometime later..We may be lions but we surely are led by donkeys..All of us no matter which side of the argument we are on...
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 21, 2018, 23:06:40 pm
Well apparently at the moment the opposite is happening all over Europe as the central banks are slowly increasing rates with the intention of lowering them when the next recession bites. Nothing to do with Brexit just pure crazy.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 22, 2018, 09:34:49 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/brexit-will-knock-5percent-off-wage-growth-says-mark-carney/ar-BBJqwb1?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp

brexit will eat your first born
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 22, 2018, 10:27:27 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/brexit-will-knock-5percent-off-wage-growth-says-mark-carney/ar-BBJqwb1?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp



Carney opinion???????????.hahahahahahahahahahhahahahah ahah........just a Treasury (very Remain) mouthpiece
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 23, 2018, 07:37:42 am
https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2018/02/13/uk-state-pension-worst-in-the-developed-world/
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 23, 2018, 08:05:46 am
https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2018/02/13/uk-state-pension-worst-in-the-developed-world/

And this is because of Brexit?????????????????????
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 23, 2018, 09:46:01 am
Net migration to UK hits six year high of 205,000.   Net EU migration is lowest for five years at 90,000. 

What?   That can't be right.  It means that non EU migration that we have 100% control of must be increasing.  Yup. That is exactly what is happening.  So if Brexit is about taking back control of our borders how is it going to work. It ain't.

And for anyone thinking we are getting more of the skills we need, sorry that is just not true.  Shortages of Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, Scientists etc has never been greater.

What is going on?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 23, 2018, 10:06:03 am
What is going on?

we are leaving the corrupt EU state.

you can stop crying about it now.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 23, 2018, 10:09:05 am
Not crying at all.  But what I was promised is not happening, so I ask again, what is happening?

If net immigration is not going down when less people are coming from the EU then how is it ever going to come down and what is the point of leaving the EU?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 23, 2018, 10:23:44 am
Not crying at all.  But what I was promised is not happening, so I ask again, what is happening?

If net immigration is not going down when less people are coming from the EU then how is it ever going to come down and what is the point of leaving the EU?

you completely miss the point.

I couldnt care if people want to come nd live in UK as long as they are not causing trouble.

the point is "there can not be any democratic choice against EU treaty" we never signed up for that.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 10:27:16 am
If non EU immigration is not being decreased then even more reason to stop relentless EU immigration. Government failure to stop non EU is another matter and needs to be addressed that's for sure. But why should that have any bearing on leaving a corrupt organization and being able to mark up our own immigration thresholds.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 10:34:41 am
I was led to believe more doctors and nurses are being hired from the EU than ever before. I need to check on that one.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 23, 2018, 10:53:09 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/britain-just-became-the-slowest-growing-major-economy-in-the-world/ar-BBJrJFj?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 23, 2018, 11:07:55 am
It’s an accepted fact that we need immigration at some level, whether from inside or outside the EU.
Personally, I don’t care where from as long as at the right levels for what the country needs & controlled by our jurisdiction. However, immigration from anywhere would never have been a problem if the country didn’t have so many of the pc brigade.
IE, If you want to come here & WORK, that’s fine !! You will not get support/benefits/housing at the UK tax payers expense.
EXACTLY the same as we have to do in other countries !!

As far as the EU membership in general goes - I personally don’t think its any more honest or corrupt than any other Western government.

They all look after themselves first !!
They are all corrupt in principal & practise !!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 23, 2018, 11:17:57 am
Viva and Ive, you two are just making this up as we go along.

Brexit was mainly to take back control of our borders.  That is what the whole Brexit movement was about.  The issue was there were too many people coming into the UK, which was causing housing problems, health problems, queues at hospitals and schools etc., etc., etc. You both have ranted on about it.

So how come Brexit is not fixing the problem.  There are more immigrants than in the last six years.  So even if EU migration goes to zero then instead non EU migration will go up by at least that amount.  EU net migration is 90,000 which is less than the 100,000 target set in the manifestos.  UK has and always had complete, 100%, unhindered, nothing to do with EU, Control on non-eu migration yet it is higher than ever before at 115,000 net.

This is turning out to be as big a lie as the £350,000,000 for the NHS bus.

From where I sit the population of the UK is faced with Project Fear or Project Lies.  We already spent a billion talking about Brexit, maybe we should stop before we spend any more and sort out our domestic problems rather than ranting about EU Corruption etc.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 23, 2018, 12:10:11 pm
Hi perrypower,
Ivemovedon on rare occasions makes some sense but for the other bully well it’s incapable of making anything up.
I believe if I’ve wants to make a really stupid statement he uses the name Viva.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: erik_tonny on February 23, 2018, 14:02:57 pm
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 23, 2018, 14:46:45 pm
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.

Not really !! I was always a supporter of leaving, still am !!
Nothing will change either way. The normal person in the street will still live his/her live as they have always done, either in or out doesn’t make a whole pile of a difference to them, life is just life. Nothing politicians do make much difference to the day to day drudge of existing. IMHO
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 23, 2018, 14:53:20 pm
Viva and Ive, you two are just making this up as we go along.

Brexit was mainly to take back control of our borders.  That is what the whole Brexit movement was about.  The issue was there were too many people coming into the UK, which was causing housing problems, health problems, queues at hospitals and schools etc., etc., etc. You both have ranted on about it.

So how come Brexit is not fixing the problem.  There are more immigrants than in the last six years.  So even if EU migration goes to zero then instead non EU migration will go up by at least that amount.  EU net migration is 90,000 which is less than the 100,000 target set in the manifestos.  UK has and always had complete, 100%, unhindered, nothing to do with EU, Control on non-eu migration yet it is higher than ever before at 115,000 net.

This is turning out to be as big a lie as the £350,000,000 for the NHS bus.

From where I sit the population of the UK is faced with Project Fear or Project Lies.  We already spent a billion talking about Brexit, maybe we should stop before we spend any more and sort out our domestic problems rather than ranting about EU Corruption etc.


Brexit was never about non EU immigration..how could it be, that was a totally seperate issue and still is. I agree that the Government hasn`t done enough to stem this particular tide. On the other hand, as you say, the EU immigration has dropped which was one of the reasons so many people voted for Brexit...But please it wasn`t the only one.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 15:59:37 pm
It’s an accepted fact that we need immigration at some level, whether from inside or outside the EU.
Personally, I don’t care where from as long as at the right levels for what the country needs & controlled by our jurisdiction. However, immigration from anywhere would never have been a problem if the country didn’t have so many of the pc brigade.
IE, If you want to come here & WORK, that’s fine !! You will not get support/benefits/housing at the UK tax payers expense.
EXACTLY the same as we have to do in other countries !!

As far as the EU membership in general goes - I personally don’t think its any more honest or corrupt than any other Western government.

They all look after themselves first !!
They are all corrupt in principal & practise !!

Then why have another set of corrupt officialdom on the other side of the channel doubling up on the corruptness of our own politicians. Doesn't make sense to even consider wanting it.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 23, 2018, 15:59:59 pm
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.

its not, its some guy in ireland trying to sway the vote so we still support him financially.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 16:13:33 pm
My interest in brexit was never just about immigration, nor is it the Tories, that was UKips stance. Don't get me wrong I fully support the cutting of EU immigration along with non EU. What I support even further than slashing immigration numbers is taking control of our own affairs, including world trade and not being subservient to EU rules and diktats from faces across the channel who have not been elected and do not answer to the British taxpayer.

You are being shafted by them,...we are used as a cash cow to support countries who fail to support themselves.

I know the British are known for being laid back...but my God what does it take to get some of you angry and say enough is enough. What does it take to make you realize we are becoming a laughing stock and they all know we are so easy to have the wool pulled over our eyes and taken for financial idiots.

To me it's not laid back it's sheer apathy. Sit back and let someone else control your lifesa, that's not for me, or what I want for those following me.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 23, 2018, 16:24:12 pm
As you wish...enough is enough.  Brexit won the vote.  That was not a license to come up with some half baked or yet to be baked exit from the EU on some silly terms to please people who just don't like immigrants, or who don't like Brussels, or feel they need to vote for everything.  Brexit must stand and deliver on their promises.  Remember, £350 million per week as an exit dividend to spend on the NHS or other things the people want.

Reduced housing waiting lists.  More Doctors.  More Nurses.  More jobs with higher wages.  Nothing but opportunities.  We the people are entitled to have all those promises kept or if Brexit can't deliver they should stand down and stand aside because their rhetoric is meaningless and they do not have the right to wreck our prosperity because they managed to tell the biggest lies.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 23, 2018, 16:28:56 pm
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.

its not, its some guy in ireland trying to sway the vote so we still support him financially.
TWILLIX
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 23, 2018, 17:13:53 pm
Perry, here take a tissue.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.frashogard.com/wp-content/uploads/cry-baby-225x218.png)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 17:34:22 pm
As you wish...enough is enough.  Brexit won the vote.  That was not a license to come up with some half baked or yet to be baked exit from the EU on some silly terms to please people who just don't like immigrants, or who don't like Brussels, or feel they need to vote for everything.  Brexit must stand and deliver on their
 promises.  Remember, £350 million per week as an exit dividend to spend on the NHS or other things the people want.

Reduced housing waiting lists.  More Doctors.  More Nurses. 
More jobs with higher wages.  Nothing but opportunities.  We the people are entitled to have all those promises kept or if Brexit can't deliver they should stand down and stand aside because their rhetoric is meaningless and they do not have the right to wreck our prosperity because they managed to tell the biggest lies.

Better hope Boris and Rees Mogg get their way then. If not forget a decent break. Half in half out and totally buggered if not.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 23, 2018, 18:02:30 pm
Good one Viva!  BWAHAHAHA

Now may I speak to your dad please...
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 23, 2018, 18:43:43 pm


Reduced housing waiting lists.  More Doctors.  More Nurses.  More jobs with higher wages.  Nothing but opportunities.  We the people are entitled to have all those promises kept or if Brexit can't deliver they should stand down and stand aside because their rhetoric is meaningless and they do not have the right to wreck our prosperity because they managed to tell the biggest lies.


 Im not sure what most of your wish list has or could specifically be a part of a Brexit agreement or even follow on from it. But, for the sake of argument, how do you know this will fail?..we arn`t there yet and we don`t have the final scenario to look at yet, but already you are sure our prosperity is wrecked?..Ok some will never be open minded and there is little that can be done in such respects.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 23, 2018, 19:48:10 pm
It is what the country was offered and promised by those who wanted Brexit.  They now need to deliver or accept they lied and that they can't deliver and put the who thing on hold.  It is the only sensible move.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 22:41:59 pm
Yeah right. Put the whole thing on hold. They got us tight by the nuts already. How tight are they going to squeeze if we back out now.
 Are you serious?. There was a vote. There was a result. How easily you forget the lies of project fear. Or was that just a slight miscalculation.

Let's not forget the referendum was offered by a PM who was a Remainer. And what was promised was OUT meant OUT.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 22:51:27 pm
Hi perrypower,
Ivemovedon on rare occasions makes some sense but for the other bully well it’s incapable of making anything up.
I believe if I’ve wants to make a really stupid statement he uses the name Viva.

As I said...what a numpty
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 23, 2018, 23:04:11 pm
Sooo the whole Brexit going to plan I see.
Just thirteen months to blast off. Rats and sinking ship comes to mind.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 23, 2018, 23:16:53 pm
Why?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 24, 2018, 06:50:41 am
As you wish...enough is enough.  Brexit won the vote.  That was not a license to come up with some half baked or yet to be baked exit from the EU on some silly terms to please people who just don't like immigrants, or who don't like Brussels, or feel they need to vote for everything.  Brexit must stand and deliver on their promises.  Remember, £350 million per week as an exit dividend to spend on the NHS or other things the people want.

Reduced housing waiting lists.  More Doctors.  More Nurses.  More jobs with higher wages.  Nothing but opportunities.  We the people are entitled to have all those promises kept or if Brexit can't deliver they should stand down and stand aside because their rhetoric is meaningless and they do not have the right to wreck our prosperity because they managed to tell the biggest lies.
That is the problem under qualified people trying to negotiate an incredibly difficult business situation. Most of these MP have never had a job in business. Very scary
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 24, 2018, 07:14:29 am
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43175201
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 07:41:08 am
As you wish...enough is enough.  Brexit won the vote.  That was not a license to come up with some half baked or yet to be baked exit from the EU on some silly terms to please people who just don't like immigrants, or who don't like Brussels, or feel they need to vote for everything.  Brexit must stand and deliver on their promises.  Remember, £350 million per week as an exit dividend to spend on the NHS or other things the people want.

Reduced housing waiting lists.  More Doctors.  More Nurses.  More jobs with higher wages.  Nothing but opportunities.  We the people are entitled to have all those promises kept or if Brexit can't deliver they should stand down and stand aside because their rhetoric is meaningless and they do not have the right to wreck our prosperity because they managed to tell the biggest lies.
That is the problem under qualified people trying to negotiate an incredibly difficult business situation. Most of these MP have never had a job in business. Very scary

They have qualified business advisors.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 08:07:34 am
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.

Not really !! I was always a supporter of leaving, still am !!
Nothing will change either way. The normal person in the street will still live his/her live as they have always done, either in or out doesn’t make a whole pile of a difference to them, life is just life. Nothing politicians do make much difference to the day to day drudge of existing. IMHO

I really have to dispute that Spitfire58.

Politicians and the decisions they make if in power can have a catastrophic effect on the day to day lives of normal people. You only have to look back as far as the Blair administration and his New Labour parties policy on open borders immigration to see that. The face of Britain was changed forever in an instant, it's the time the strain really started to tell on social services and you and I began to realize you might have to wait 3 weeks just to see a doctor, you couldn't get on a council house waiting list for love nor money and there's a hose pipe ban after a winter of rain because of the massive numbers of people needing access to our water supplies. Meanwhile he continues to spout his anti brexit rhetoric living in luxury and with a property portfolio only a Russian oligarch could match him with.

That's just the peripheral stuff...if you want the major, that bstd and his cronies  also dragged us into overseas conflicts which killed and maimed thousands of our soldiers and fanned the flames of Islamic terrorism we have to put up with today.

The very decisions May is making right now in brexit negotiations will have an impact, especially if she gets it wrong. These big political calls always filter down to the general public and we end up paying the price of political ego's.

Oh they can affect us all right.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 24, 2018, 09:44:01 am
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.

Not really !! I was always a supporter of leaving, still am !!
Nothing will change either way. The normal person in the street will still live his/her live as they have always done, either in or out doesn’t make a whole pile of a difference to them, life is just life. Nothing politicians do make much difference to the day to day drudge of existing. IMHO

I really have to dispute that Spitfire58.

Politicians and the decisions they make if in power can have a catastrophic effect on the day to day lives of normal people. You only have to look back as far as the Blair administration and his New Labour parties policy on open borders immigration to see that. The face of Britain was changed forever in an instant, it's the time the strain really started to tell on social services and you and I began to realize you might have to wait 3 weeks just to see a doctor, you couldn't get on a council house waiting list for love nor money and there's a hose pipe ban after a winter of rain because of the massive numbers of people needing access to our water supplies. Meanwhile he continues to spout his anti brexit rhetoric living in luxury and with a property portfolio only a Russian oligarch could match him with.

That's just the peripheral stuff...if you want the major, that bstd and his cronies  also dragged us into overseas conflicts which killed and maimed thousands of our soldiers and fanned the flames of Islamic terrorism we have to put up with today.

The very decisions May is making right now in brexit negotiations will have an impact, especially if she gets it wrong. These big political calls always filter down to the general public and we end up paying the price of political ego's.

Oh they can affect us all right.

Fair enough. I can agree with some of that. However, I think the Islamic situation would still be a problem.

Also, in my nearest city (Dundee) to quote from Google “Today, over 94% of the population was born in the United Kingdom. Breaking this down further, over 87% of the population was born in Scotland”.

Immigration is not a major issue in reality although people’s perceptions of this seems to be different, possibly the general situation is different in Scotland.
As far as doctors & housing go those numbers do not give enough to allow for the problems.
If I want a doctors appointment I have to jump through so many hoops to get one !! but when you get to the surgery with perhaps 7 or 8 doctors on plus 2 or 3 practise nurses there are never more than four or five people sitting in the waiting room !! The new medical contracts given out a number of years ago plus their productivity level are much more of an issue than being unable to see a doctor because they are overrun with immigrants.
Same goes for council housing. I have seen houses boarded up in council estates for months when they could be recycled & occupied much faster.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 24, 2018, 09:53:19 am
There was a vote. There was a result. And there was a whole range of Brexit promises that have to be delivered on to the people or the whole thing needs to be called off.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 24, 2018, 10:35:27 am
There was a vote. There was a result. And there was a whole range of Brexit promises that have to be delivered on to the people or the whole thing needs to be called off.

We chose not to vote in The Referendum, as we will not be returning to The UK and felt it was not right to vote in a referendum that would not affect us, however, while I honestly believe the UK be better off out of The EU I can sympathise with your sentiments,  a large proportion of the promises made were obviously impossible to keep, and people knew that at the time of the vote, the ridiculous amount of money Johnson claimed would be ploughed back into The National Health far exceeded the net figure The UK paid into The EU, and that was widely known, but did not affect the vote, In my humble opinion that added to the perception we would be able to halt immigration and rule ourselves is what made the difference.

What was promised cannot and never could be delivered, and the process can not be stopped as if it where The UK would be in a totally untenable situation in future negotiations, and the laughing stock of the developed world.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 10:56:51 am
There was a vote. There was a result. And there was a whole range of Brexit promises that have to be delivered on to the people or the whole thing needs to be called off.

You missed of the best part of that quote either by accident or deliberately.  It was 'you forget the lies of project fear'.

There were just as may lies told by those who wanted to stay in. You could argue that those lies being told indicate it should go ahead regardless of the deal.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 13:07:31 pm
This is actually quit amusing: Watching all the former brexit supporters, now realising the brexit is going to be disastrous, trying to find somebody else to blame.

Not really !! I was always a supporter of leaving, still am !!
Nothing will change either way. The normal person in the street will still live his/her live as they have always done, either in or out doesn’t make a whole pile of a difference to them, life is just life. Nothing politicians do make much difference to the day to day drudge of existing. IMHO

I really have to dispute that Spitfire58.

Politicians and the decisions they make if in power can have a catastrophic effect on the day to day lives of normal people. You only have to look back as far as the Blair administration and his New Labour parties policy on open borders immigration to see that. The face of Britain was changed forever in an instant, it's the time the strain really started to tell on social services and you and I began to realize you might have to wait 3 weeks just to see a doctor, you couldn't get on a council house waiting list for love nor money and there's a hose pipe ban after a winter of rain because of the massive numbers of people needing access to our water supplies. Meanwhile he continues to spout his anti brexit rhetoric living in luxury and with a property portfolio only a Russian oligarch could match him with.

That's just the peripheral stuff...if you want the major, that bstd and his cronies  also dragged us into overseas conflicts which killed and maimed thousands of our soldiers and fanned the flames of Islamic terrorism we have to put up with today.

The very decisions May is making right now in brexit negotiations will have an impact, especially if she gets it wrong. These big political calls always filter down to the general public and we end up paying the price of political ego's.

Oh they can affect us all right.

Fair enough. I can agree with some of that. However, I think the Islamic situation would still be a problem.

Also, in my nearest city (Dundee) to quote from Google “Today, over 94% of the population was born in the United Kingdom. Breaking this down further, over 87% of the population was born in Scotland”.

Immigration is not a major issue in reality although people’s perceptions of this seems to be different, possibly the general situation is different in Scotland.
As far as doctors & housing go those numbers do not give enough to allow for the problems.
If I want a doctors appointment I have to jump through so many hoops to get one !! but when you get to the surgery with perhaps 7 or 8 doctors on plus 2 or 3 practise nurses there are never more than four or five people sitting in the waiting room !! The new medical contracts given out a number of years ago plus their productivity level are much more of an issue than being unable to see a doctor because they are overrun with immigrants.
Same goes for council housing. I have seen houses boarded up in council estates for months when they could be recycled & occupied much faster.

With all due respect I think you would look at the immigration question in a different light if you lived in the south east of England or any of the Northern English cities like Bradford and Rochdale. Obviously you can only judge it from where you sit and Scotland has not  (yet ) suffered like the rest. Could be the cold weather up there, I don't know , or the fact discerning immigrants aren't too fussed on deep fried Mars bars. But you certainly don't get your fair share. It must seem a million miles away whats going on in Calais to you, but it's just on our doorstep down south and we are only a heartbeat away from countless thousands more with no visible means of support gaining entry at Dover or other ports. Sooner or later it will creep your way...it's inevitable, its a never ending tide of have not's looking to be have's and nothing is going to stop it least of all a British Government. Although it may take some years and not manifest itself in your lifetime I've no doubt it will for future generations of Scots. But like the problem is ours now it will be yours to deal with then. Unless of course we manage to gain a Government with some courage who are prepared to get tough and confront the problem head on. Which looks nigh on an impossibility to me.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 24, 2018, 14:23:37 pm
Followed the debate with interest here. Problem is there is nothing wrong with the EU or Britain, but problem is the 2 systems don`t fit. It boils down to the way the regulation and directives have been developed in the 2 systems. Rather long answer why, but here goes.

The problem with EU regulation is not its objective but its method. Its method is absolutely contrary to the approach that the UK has traditionally pursued, in many dimensions. Implementing one system in a country set up for another, gives quirky results.

It’s hard to name specific EU regulations that cause a problem when implemented in the UK because all of them do and none of them do. None of them do because they all seek to achieve objectives which the UK wants to achieve anyway. All of them do because they use methods for achieving those objectives that don’t work in the UK.

It’s worth dealing with one issue first. There are two types of EU regulation. Both are mandatory. One type is the Directive. Directives are used when a fundamental change in the law is required. In the UK, it has to be passed by Act of Parliament. Some of the wording will be different, but the detail must be substantively identical to the Directive. If there is a material departure from the Directive, the member state can be, and frequently is, prosecuted by the EU Commission, before the European Court of Justice. The UK has been a relatively good pupil in faithfully applying Directives. The most prosecuted member state is Germany.

The second type of EU regulation is called the Regulation. A Regulation is used when there is no need to change primary legislation. Once issued by Brussels, the Regulation applies directly and immediately, without involving Parliament.

I’ve attempted to describe here, some of the general differences in approach between EU and UK regulation, that make the EU approach so costly in the UK. Most of my comments apply to Directives rather than Regulations.

Incentive regulation versus codes. The UK regulatory philosophy places responsibility on those with the power to ensure appropriate outcomes. That is why it’s called incentive regulation. It’s designed to give those with the power, the incentive to ensure the right result, leaving the method up to them. The EU method takes the opposite approach. It specifies exactly what you have to do, to comply.
Devolved enforcement versus public enforcement. UK regulation is enforced by a complex network of professional associations, specialist tribunals and courts. EU regulation on the other hand, is enforced via public quangos. When implementing an EU Directive, the UK has to set up the quango required by the EU.
The general differences described above go to the heart of the UK’s and EU’s different legal systems. The former is based on the principles of Common Law, prohibition by exception and personal responsibility. The latter is based on the principles of the Napoleonic Code, permission by exception and collective responsibility.

The differences lead to quirky results when EU regulation is implemented in the UK. In particular:

Balance between codification and enforcement. The UK system of personal and professional responsibility based on outcomes, requires a law that is general in nature, based on principles and relatively simple. The EU system of public accountability is the opposite. It depends on a detailed law that leaves no leeway for interpretation because its execution is procedural rather than outcome-based. The UK system assumes strong private enforcement through the maintenance of professional and personal standards, whereas the EU system uses a strong law to compensate for an assumed weak public enforcement. Quirk number 1: when applied in the UK, EU regulation takes the form of a strong and highly specific law, strongly enforced.
Gold plating. It is well known that the UK almost always gold-plates EU regulation. Some say that’s down to self-serving officials ensuring they have a job for life. It’s not that at all. The legal system here pretty much requires it to. As mentioned above, the UK system assumes strong enforcement and outcome orientation. For that reason, when designing the law, officials know that if taken to court, they will lose if the outcome is anything other than exactly what the EU Directive says it has to be, in every particular. Quirk number 2: the tendency to gold plate EU legislation in the UK is absolutely embedded in its system.
Cost of compliance. The consequence of Quirk number 1 and 2 leads to Quirk number 3, which I assume requires no further explanation. Quirk number 3: the cost of complying with EU regulation is of a different level in the UK, compared with many other EU countries
Lack of effectiveness. The removal of personal, professional and private accountability from regulation means that management often sees regulation as a necessary cost of doing business rather than something for which they have personal responsibility. Regulation is typically outsourced to compliance departments. Quirk number 4: EU regulation has created a divide between business and the legal system, where management no longer feels “bought in” to what regulation is trying to achieve. This reduces its effectiveness.

As you can see, the issue with EU regulation in the UK is systemic. You get nowhere by asking “what specific Directives or regulations do you want to get rid of?” The answer is, all of them. It will take a long time but fundamentally, this is what Brexit is about. Stopping a thoroughly unsuitable system having an insidiously damaging effect on a country that is set up from top to bottom, for a different way of working.

Francis Fukuyama became famous for repudiating his work “The End of History”, in which he had proclaimed that Western liberal democracy was the pinnacle of human society. This led to the Bush doctrine that democracy needed to be imposed on non-democratic societies, in order to liberate people. It is now more widely understood that the imposition by force of liberalism on illiberal societies, is in fact, one of the most illiberal things one can do. And, to boot, it doesn’t work.

This is basically what has happened in the UK. Our economy and society have been gradually infiltrated by a different way of working that is not necessarily wrong in itself but unlike other countries, we don’t understand it and consequently, it doesn’t work.

What elements does the EU object to us getting rid of? Herein lies the problem. The UK is as committed as is the EU, to high standards and strong rights. The problem is that the EU thinks that its Directives are the only methods of achieving them.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 24, 2018, 18:37:21 pm
Project Fear did not win the referendum so they are not require or expected to deliver anything. 

The deceitful Brexit gang won and are therefore expected and required to deliver on the promises made or stand down and stand aside.  They can admit that they cannot deliver and just say the referendum was only advisory and therefore we are not 'bound' to deliver.

And please stop whinging about Muslims on your doorstep, that has nothing to do with Brexit! 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 19:48:19 pm
More like the deceitful gang lost. Deliberately lying about the economic effect of leaving the EU is not deceit?.

And they are still at it now. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 24, 2018, 19:49:36 pm
As I see it the 2 sides have polarised certain sections. Not sure I was deceived by the  "deceitful  gang Brexit" . I made my mind on many factors as did others, some issues would have been the same as others but ultimately the decision has been made.

The UK already trades more with the rest of the world than the EU. It’s the only EU country that does.

Remember: while the EU is a free trade area, it’s also a protectionist zone vis-à-vis the rest of the world. For a country that trades more with the rest of the world than with the EU, that doesn’t make sense.

Add a further thing to the mix. The UK’s export mix is different from the leading EU powers of France and Germany. It is heavily weighted towards services. That means we cannot rely on the EU — who are more concerned with their own interests — to represent our interests faithfully.

The conclusion is clear: the UK needs its own independent trade policy. The key thought leaders have been making this point consistently for as long as our membership of the EU has been the subject of public debate. Ultimately, their argument proved compelling.

Think about this: China is investing furiously. This investment needs finance, an area where the UK is a global leader. The Chinese also need access to science and technology provided by the UK’s world leading universities.

The UK on the other hand, could well do with cheaper consumer goods, solar panels, shoes and clothes. These are areas in which the Chinese excel and to which the EU partially blocks access, mainly to protect their native producers (none of whom are British). This makes our country poorer.

Similar synergies exist with other countries.

There are clear opportunities for win-win. Yet today, we’re not even allowed to have those conversations. After leaving the EU, we’ll finally be able to.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 24, 2018, 19:56:33 pm
Thank you Beachlife, very well put, interesting and accurate. What you said really does and should make everyone think, regardless of whatever side of the argument.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 24, 2018, 20:04:17 pm
thing is, as we where not sold the closer ties in full originally we brits see EU differently to how EU see us.

for us, we are british and part of this little group like our neighouring countries are.

for the EU they see it as a united state of Europe and we in UK are only renting a part of EU from them.

these ties where never sold to us we where just thrown in by blair and brown.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 24, 2018, 20:10:51 pm
I have a theory that 90% of the mudslinging going around on controversial topics comes when people with entrenched positions take something out of context, fling it at the other side and say, “so there!”

The key here is context.

Why did David Davis say, “it will not be a Mad Max dystopia?”. Because of the context. The context is that the EU has been claiming of late, that any future agreement will have to include a level of EU oversight of UK regulation.

This is not normal in trade agreements. It’s common for parties to agree on common goals and to recognise each other’s regulatory system as “equivalent”. But what they’ve essentially been saying is, “the UK can’t be trusted; we need to go beyond what’s normal and include an extra layer of protection. The UK needs to be answerable to us.”

The response is partly assertion: “no, the UK will be an independent country” and partly mockery, eg saying in so many words, “yeah right, we’re going to be some kind of dystopia.”

You see this in other areas as well.

In projecting global Britain, you might say “we’re not pulling up the drawbridge”, a turn of phrase just begging for a sarcastic response from opponents: “really high bar you’re setting yourself there”.

Or in regard to the economy you might say “the UK isn’t suddenly going to join the third world” in mockery of doom-mongering (same applies).

If you wanted, you could turn the tables and be similarly snide about the one Brexit prediction that has already been disproven, that a vote to leave would cause an immediate and profound economic shock, leading to the loss of 500,000 jobs. But it’s not a terribly mature way to proceed. We all get things wrong.

Context is everything.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 21:00:48 pm
Looks like the cabinet have come up with a coherent and universal way forward on brexit with everyone on board.  Not sure the EU negotiators are going to be too happy about it.. ( or some on here).but hey no lies and no deceit...key proposals set out for all to see.

Be nice if they added a take it or leave it clause in it when  presented to Juncker and company. But come on..lets not demand miracles.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 24, 2018, 21:18:36 pm
Whatever the UK government puts to the EU I doubt if they will see it as enough.

We are seeing a microcosm of the EU-UK relationship playing out in front of our very eyes, in all the wretched dysfunctionality that has plagued its history from the outset.

The EU has misjudged the UK at every turn. Their response to Cameron’s warning that “you better take us seriously or we could leave” was “yeah right”; their response to “Brexit means Brexit” was laughter; “no deal is better than a bad deal” was met with pitying derision. Reading the German press leaves one with the impression that the decision to leave the EU has yet to be taken. They do not believe we are serious.

There is today, a very real risk of a no-deal outcome. This would be a traumatic and disruptive exit and bad for both sides. We have to hope this doesn't happen. But if the EU think that it can be avoided by carrying on as they are, they've misjudged (again). The UK and the EU are approaching the situation from different universes. Each side truly believes the other is deluded.

Just as they always have.

Being in a customs union with the EU may be required for a temporary period but in the long term, it is unsustainable.

The reason is that it prevents the two things we want to be able to do, which were the main reasons for voting to leave the EU in the first place. Specifically:

it requires that we adhere to much of EU regulation
it prevents us developing our own trade policy
Take these away, you’ve taken away Brexit. That’s the reason why membership of a customs union with the EU, cannot be sustained.

Whilst I don't for a minute think the final agreed position between the UK and the EU will involve a customs union, if perchance it does, it will simply be unravelled and pretty quickly.

Not a stable end-game.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 21:34:37 pm
Can't say I disagree with that.

Still of the opinion though a no deal would suit us far better than the EU. And that should have been our bargaining tool right from the outset.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 24, 2018, 21:44:40 pm
The UK's problem at the minute is it is fighting a civil war and a continental war at the same time. It needs to get its house in order and all political figures need to band together for the country first and then get back to fighting the civil war. At the moment UK is fighting itself on issues over the EU, fighting the EU on issues over the exit, and fighting itself on issues over itself.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 24, 2018, 21:50:47 pm
100% correct
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 25, 2018, 01:26:21 am
We have Scottish relations who live in France over on holiday at the moment so I asked what was the French perspective on Brexit. The answer I got was surprising & a bit shocking.

“Europe is laughing at Britain, in fact at the moment Britain is effectively the town clown. The attitude is, bye bye, don’t need you !! We will give you nothing & you will suffer for not being part of the EU”

So maybe things like Junkers attitude maybe aren’t so far off the mark. It might end up having to be a hard Brexit. I just hope the government have the guts for it !!

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 25, 2018, 06:04:07 am
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/may-the-uks-best-days-lie-ahead-of-us/ar-BBJxygF?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=iehp
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 25, 2018, 07:30:06 am
As I've already said, The rest of the world is shaking its head in disbelief at our position on Brexit. 

We are not at war with the EU and those that think we are are fools.  The EU are our best and closest friends. 

Mrs May is making promises she can't keep unless we stay in the Customs Union.  If she pursues any course other than that the Government will fall.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 25, 2018, 09:27:46 am
Best and closest friends. You must be joking. They would stitch us up without thinking twice about it. I wouldn't trust that shower as far as I could throw them.

No we are not at war with them but your best friend they are not. Anyone who thinks they are is the real fool.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 25, 2018, 10:19:22 am
we should just get out now, no deal, no suggestion of a deal, no offer of "this" for a deal, just get out.

if they are all so smart they wont come asking for a deal.

the german auto industry would take a massive dump and most of the EU industry but hey, they dont need us.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 10:38:41 am
As I've already said, The rest of the world is shaking its head in disbelief at our position on Brexit. 

We are not at war with the EU and those that think we are are fools.  The EU are our best and closest friends. 

Mrs May is making promises she can't keep unless we stay in the Customs Union.  If she pursues any course other than that the Government will fall.

Sorry I thought I was debating with adults and they understood that methapors are used sometimes to express a point.

Just to help you :

Metaphor a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 10:41:52 am
The UK’s membership of the EU makes it a rule taker in international trade. The UK’s international trading relationships are the ones that have been determined for it, by the EU;
That would be fine if the EU’s ability to determine trading relationships on the UK’s behalf, was excellent and better than the UK could do in an independent capacity;
Data on the EU’s trading relationships shows that the set it has developed on the UK’s behalf is in fact less than excellent. This is particularly so in the area where the UK excels relative to the rest of the EU: services;
Independent countries have developed better external trading relationships than the EU. They have free trade agreements (FTAs) with the world’s largest economies, whereas the EU does not. Almost all their FTAs include services, which is not true of the EU;
The above would be tolerable if the EU’s programme in liberating its internal services market was so good that it offset the poor quality of its external trading relationships. Data on intra-EU trade in services versus extra-EU trade in services suggests this is not the case;

The above would also be tolerable if the EU’s Internal Market programme had been an unambiguous success in boosting EU economies. The data on this are more qualitative than quantitative but an economic study performed for the EU by external economists suggest that in many important respects, it has not succeeded in doing so.

On the basis of the above, there is little evidence that the EU has done a good job in representing the UK in international trade. This suggests that the UK’s decision to subcontract trade policy to the EU, has not been a success.

Indeed, a number of non-EU countries have better trade deals than the EU. There is no reason to believe that an independent UK would be unable to improve upon the trade deals it currently has, through the EU.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 25, 2018, 11:01:43 am
As I always thought.. the customs union is not the trade deal made in heaven they try to portray it is. Certainly not for the UK. The easily duped will accept it..those who can see the EU coming will know it will just prevent us making our own deals and becoming a competitor.

It amazes me how many are sucked into the EU whirlpool in the belief everything they do is for our benefit. Couldn't be more wrong.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 11:05:31 am

The EU is a free trade area and a customs union. This implies freedoms but also, restrictions. Do the benefits of the freedoms outweigh the costs of the restrictions? Is the answer different for the UK — the only EU country that trades more with the rest of the world than with the EU — than for other EU countries? Those are the core questions and it doesn’t strike me that their answers are particularly obvious.

After all, customs unions are often claimed to be double-edged swords. On the one hand, they facilitate frictionless trade. On the other hand, they can be used for protectionist purposes. Protectionist barriers can be quite strong. Anti-dumping duties have been imposed on Chinese shoes to protect Italian shoemakers. A 10% tariff is imposed on vehicle imports, to protect EU car manufacturers. Some Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations have failed because the EU refuses to consider opening up its agricultural market. All of these things raise prices to consumers in order to protect producers — the definition of protectionism. The protectionism ensures Italian shoemakers, German car makers and French farmers are all happy clients of the EU. But how does it affect Britain?

Really, there are two “markets” for us to consider. One is the EU and the other is the market the EU protects itself against: the rest of the world. Membership of one partially closes us off to the other. Which is bigger?

Yes alright, you can say the rest of the world is not a single market and you’d be right (I’d actually say the same about the EU). But which is the more important to the UK? Today, 57% of the UK’s exports go to the world outside the EU. The world’s biggest economies outside the EU are the US, China, Japan and India. How many of those does the EU have operational FTAs with? None. Which is the UK’s largest national export market? The US.

As mentioned before, the UK trades more with the rest of the world than with the EU. It’s the only EU country for which that’s true, yet as an EU member we are prohibited — through membership of the customs union — from discussing trade with non-EU countries. That’s not bad in itself: maybe the EU is so great at representing the UK’s interests that we could never do better. But is it? If it was, we’d expect to see a large number of fantastic FTAs covering the UK’s key strength: services. So let’s put that to the test.

Since the EU doesn’t have any sort of FTA with the world’s largest economies, we’re off to a poor start. But what about the FTAs it does have? Some analysis was conducted in 2015 of EU FTAs with a selection of non-EU OECD countries (see page 43 of the following paper).[1] This compares the FTAs held by the EU with those of Chile, Korea, Singapore and Switzerland (the choice of countries was dictated by data availability).
http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/mythandparadox.pdf
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 11:36:38 am
Call me stupid or uneducated if you like, but it is not at all obvious to me, that the UK has benefited from being in the EU customs union: it seems we would have been better off asking Chile, rather than the EU, to negotiate on our behalf.

What about the single market? The EU single market is undoubtedly enormous and aspires to create free movement in goods, services, capital and people. But there are two questions we should ask ourselves. The first is about effectiveness: how effective has it been? The second is about cost: we shouldn’t pretend membership of the single market is cost-free. After all, one of the conditions of membership is that we are required by law to implement all EU Directives and Regulations.

Let’s look at the effectiveness first, focusing again on services. The EU has its own metric of the success of services liberalisation: it measures the difference between intra-EU exports to other EU countries and extra-EU exports of services. If EU countries are trading services massively more amongst themselves than their exports of services to other countries, one may conclude that the EU has been hugely beneficial to trade in services and by extension as a major exporter of services, it may be concluded that the UK has probably benefited more than most.

Some analysis was conducted between 2002 and 2012, to see whether that’s the case (see page 91 of the paper referenced at http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/mythandparadox.pdf)

If you have seen the data you can see, the difference is not large at all. EU countries are exporting almost as much in services to non-EU countries, as to EU countries. What’s more, after moderate growth before 2007, the difference has been narrowing. Indeed, during this period every single one of the 12 countries considered experienced higher growth in services exports outside the EU, than inside. In absolute numbers, in 2012 the UK exported $110.7 bn of services to the EU and $181.2 bn of services outside the EU. It’s often said that the EU has never done much for trade in services; that this limb of the four freedoms is largely a mirage. There seems to be some evidential support for this view.

At this stage, my limited intellect is failing to detect a dramatic benefit of being in the EU single market, for a large services exporter like the UK.

However, even if the benefits are not obvious, perhaps the costs of EU membership are so low, that any benefit of membership however small, is still worth it. As mentioned above, a potential source of cost is the fact that the UK must adopt all EU Directives and Regulations. These Directives and Regulations cover all areas of EU competence, spanning: internal market; social policy; economic, social and territorial cohesion; agriculture and fisheries; environment; consumer protection; transport; trans-European networks; energy; freedom, security and justice; public health; research, technological development and space; and development and humanitarian aid.

That’s a pretty big swathe of national policy that’s been outsourced to the EU, so the scope for there to be material costs, is large. The EU better be good! Is it?

At which point I will withdraw from this debate unless I see some discussion which may alter my mind .
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 25, 2018, 12:13:05 pm
Beachlife..Thanks again. Your contribution has been very informative and interesting. A lot of research has gone into it. Clearly we could and should be doing much better with  our present membership of the EU.

   It will indeed be interesting to hear contrary argument and debate.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 25, 2018, 13:24:05 pm
thing is, as we were not sold the closer ties in full originally we Brits see EU differently to how EU see us.

for us, we are British and part of this little group of our neighboring countries are.

for the EU they see it as a united state of Europe and we in the UK are only renting a part of EU from them.

these ties were never sold to us we were just thrown in by Blair and brown.

As much as I detest Blair as human being, { And I consider Brown to be a non- entity} they cannot be solely held to blame, we originally Joined "The Common Market" sold as a group of countries band together to increase trading within the group and as a group to the rest of the world, subsequent governments then allowed it to develop into what it is now, as you rightly say The United States of Europe.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 14:03:15 pm
Looks to most Europeans that the U.K. joined a club and when you can’t have everything your own way you picked up the ball and went home
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 25, 2018, 14:54:18 pm
No Dagwood....we joined a club that that subsequently decided to change the rules without consultation called the European project..that is what is objected to and by millions throughout Europe not just the British..We are the first to try to change it.
  Interestingly one of your own Countryman Michael O Leary has condemned the 'project' as being wrong.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 15:03:25 pm
Looks to most Europeans that the U.K. joined a club and when you can’t have everything your own way you picked up the ball and went home

Apologises I said I would leave but you have got me to rise to the bait.

Consider the following famous quote by Bertrand Russell.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

Before coming to the conclusion that a serious or educated person cannot possibly believe any given thing, I’d recommend examining what is implied by your own certainty on the subject. Alright, I don’t have an issue with people being 100% certain the earth is round because the evidence for it is rather compelling. But Brexit is complicated. So complicated in fact, that it seems (at least to a thicko like me) that reasonable people can have different views.

So we can have a debate can you clarify where you get the evidence that most Europeans think what you said?

In Europe we have seen our friends and neighbours treated in a way which I`m sure they are not laughing about. Italy bullied into the appointment of an EU puppet prime minister. Greece forced into financial hardship to the point of having to steal money from its own citizens. Ireland forced to vote again to provide the necessary “agreement”, the EU elite siding with dictatorial Spain against the people of Catalonia, the European Commission putting Poland etc before its puppet “court” for refusing to let divisive migrants in. What’s next? One thing is certain. It’s only necessary to look back at the days of the Roman Empire. Once one has forced the population into submission, it’s the easiest thing in the world to chop off the “head” of the organisation and install a new regime.

What’s the answer? Who knows? But a huge amorphous mass certainly isn’t it. Smaller EU members are already starting to complain that “freedom of movement of people” is resulting in an exodus. How long before such countries are no longer viable? Can everyone be packed into the “richer” members? How long will they remain “richer”? How many times can you slice a cake and still have everyone getting the same amount? Not a problem that the Roman Empire really had to face since much of its population consisted of slaves. How about the French and Spanish models? An elite lording it over peasants and serfs. The Prussian or German model wasn’t much different. And it’s worth noting that once an elite sees itself as an elite and has sufficient power, rebellion is not tolerated. Even if a proportion of the peasants/serfs overcome the conditioning, there will still be a proportion with the “Stockholm Syndrome”. It’s how Pavlov trained dogs.


Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 15:35:52 pm
He doesn’t think much of Brexit either.
Have a look around at any manufacturer in the U.K. they mostly assemble components that are made all over Europe stick it in a box and sell it. That will be a big problem after a hard Brexit.
However it probably won’t as most U.K. manufacturers have already set up a presence in other EU. Countries and will have most of their operations in the EU They will keep a small presence in the U.K. to enable them to trade in the U.K. also.  Not good for jobs and before anyone denies it, this it is happening now. 

Oh and MOL also describes Brexit as the stupidest decision ever.
As for me I think the whole Europe thing will be better off without the Brits and function much smoother and quicker. They’ll just have to sort that mess they call the Irish border.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 15:43:15 pm
It’s only necessary to look back at the days of the Roman Empire. Once one has forced the population into submission, it’s the easiest thing in the world to chop off the “head” of the organisation and install a new regime.

You could say the same of the British Empire.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 16:05:30 pm
It’s only necessary to look back at the days of the Roman Empire. Once one has forced the population into submission, it’s the easiest thing in the world to chop off the “head” of the organisation and install a new regime.

You could say the same of the British Empire.

However the British Empire evolved and changed unlike the Roman Empire. Its no longer in existence are you seeing any willingness in the EU willing to change and evolve?

The UK agreed to a referendum for Scotland and Wales. The EU supported the Spanish government in Catalonia.

Still waiting to hear your evidence about where all the Europeans are who believe that Britain has picked up its bat and gone home.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 16:21:27 pm
Maybe spitfires post and you could read between the odd line when the spokesperson for the EU make a diplomatic statement. But then there are none so blind as those who will not see.
And as a matter of fact both treaties that were rejected by the Irish people,and if memory serves  me one other member were only ratified when the required amendments were added.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 25, 2018, 16:33:56 pm
'There are none so blind as those who will not see'

 ;)


Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 25, 2018, 16:39:39 pm
Maybe spitfires post and you could read between the odd line when the spokesperson for the EU make a diplomatic statement. But then there are none so blind as those who will not see.
And as a matter of fact both treaties that were rejected by the Irish people,and if memory serves  me one other member were only ratified when the required amendments were added.


No Dagwood the amendments were little or nothing of consequence and did not address the fears/dislike the majority of the Irish people had of the consequences of the Lisbon Treaty. Quick question for you..Did you agree or not with that decision to force your people to vote again?..straight yes or no will do..Thanks
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 16:55:40 pm
Ireland is a democracy and unlike what’s happening in the UK at this time, I was pleased we were given the opportunity to use our vote again.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 25, 2018, 17:07:00 pm
Well thank you, your position is very clear. You are pro EU and desperate to remain so and happy your people were invited to vote again, and saw nothing wrong with that. Indeed as you yourself said `None so blind as those who want to be`.

 Just remember the old saying about loyalty..........its the thing they shaft you with.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 17:09:24 pm
Dagwood obviously passionately believes in the EU project. The divide between him and his ilk, and the forces that motivated Brexit, are as wide as they could be. One side regards the other with laughter and in the opposite direction, there’s rage.

His emotional commitment to EU ideology is extreme. His positive feelings towards the EU project are mirrored by his negative ones for anyone who (as he sees it), damages it.

Whilst never being a vote for or against an EU project, the UK’s vote not to participate in it, is one that he has taken personally.

Like all people who are personally wounded, he is prone to talking irrationally. The worst thing (from his point of view) is that there is nothing he can do about it, (which of course explains his attempts to intimidate us from the touchline).

Dagwood’s behaviour should be seen in that light. We shouldn’t be worried because the rules are set elsewhere and there’s nothing he can do.

In the end, much as dagwood wishes otherwise, the EU-UK relationship is one that he can’t get away from. Friend or foe, we’re there. Right on his doorstep. He can rage all he likes but at the end of the day, the EU aren’t going to destroy us and we’re staying exactly where we are.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 17:33:38 pm
What a lovely but inaccurate picture you paint.
However you failed to mention the untold damage that has been inflicted on the people of the U.K. in what can only be described as a civil war. Families have been pulled apart by the entrenched attitudes of no compromise by both sides. People are afraid to mention the B word in public as an avalanche of thunder fire and brimstone will come down on them. You only have to read this forum to see this.
Yes we can do something about it as Europe must also agree to any final settlement. But the bully who ran home with the ball will not see this side of things.
I hope you will be around to wax wonderful words as things deteriorate .
We won’t see the rifts  sorted in our life time.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 17:41:13 pm
Well thank you, your position is very clear. You are pro EU and desperate to remain so and happy your people were invited to vote again, and saw nothing wrong with that. Indeed as you yourself said `None so blind as those who want to be`.

 Just remember the old saying about loyalty..........its the thing they shaft you with.

Ireland have benefited financially from the EU. However, they will now are moving into contributing more than they gain with the expansion of less well off eastern European countries. With the UK contribution disappearing Ireland will have to increase its contributions, perhaps the views of his fellow Irishmen may change and questions will be asked there,

THe Irish politicians arecertainly certainly starting to ask questions

https://www.reuters.com/article/taxavoidance-ireland/irish-pm-accuses-eu-states-of-hypocrisy-over-corporate-tax-idUSL8N1PC2HI

Once the EU starts to slap Ireland down a few times those chickens might begin to cluck.

Fortunately the British will not be laughing at the Irish we will understand.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 17:42:24 pm
Well thank you, your position is very clear. You are pro EU and desperate to remain so and happy your people were invited to vote again, and saw nothing wrong with that. Indeed as you yourself said `None so blind as those who want to be`.

 Just remember the old saying about loyalty..........its the thing they shaft you with.

At no stage did I say which way my vote was cast. I actually voted against both treaties as a kick in the butt to the EU who’s  never ending rules and regulations were making it impossible to live or run a business. I believe it gave Brussels a wake up call
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 17:47:00 pm
Well thank you, your position is very clear. You are pro EU and desperate to remain so and happy your people were invited to vote again, and saw nothing wrong with that. Indeed as you yourself said `None so blind as those who want to be`.

 Just remember the old saying about loyalty..........its the thing they shaft you with.

Ireland have benefited financially from the EU. However, they will now are moving into contributing more than they gain with the expansion of less well off eastern European countries. With the UK contribution disappearing Ireland will have to increase its contributions, perhaps the views of his fellow Irishmen may change and questions will be asked there,

THe Irish politicians arecertainly certainly starting to ask questions

https://www.reuters.com/article/taxavoidance-ireland/irish-pm-accuses-eu-states-of-hypocrisy-over-corporate-tax-idUSL8N1PC2HI

Once the EU starts to slap Ireland down a few times those chickens might begin to cluck.

Fortunately the British will not be laughing at the Irish we will understand.

The British always laughed at the Irish and everyone else for that matter.
But he who laughs last etc.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 25, 2018, 18:32:16 pm
What a lovely but inaccurate picture you paint.
However you failed to mention the untold damage that has been inflicted on the people of the U.K. in what can only be described as a civil war. Families have been pulled apart by the entrenched attitudes of no compromise by both sides. People are afraid to mention the B word in public as an avalanche of thunder fire and brimstone will come down on them. You only have to read this forum to see this.
Yes we can do something about it as Europe must also agree to any final settlement. But the bully who ran home with the ball will not see this side of things.
I hope you will be around to wax wonderful words as things deteriorate .
We won’t see the rifts  sorted in our life time.

Not sure I recognise my family and friends in your civil war. Go into any pub and the B word you mention is either moaned about ,discussed or ignored. More civil wars over the football results. You keep making statements about what other Europeans are saying and how we Brits are all fighting each other over Brexit but in the real world life goes on. I was in Dublin last May and will be again in May this year I can guarantee I will hear more arguments in the pubs about politics than I hear in the UK about Brexit, but afterwards everyone has a drink and pats each other on the shoulders.

So I assume you are just hoping that everyone is laughing and we are bickering between ourselves its all in your imagination.

The rift between the nations after the second world war were mended in a short time, incidentally before the EU was created. The rifts that exist in the political classes will soon be forgotten, as soon as Brexit is finally settled and the next question arises.

Just wonder why you as an Irishman are so concerned about what happens in the UK?

Its almost as if you are hoping for Brexit to be a total catastrophe. As the 2nd biggest importer (13.5%) of your goods after the US you had better hope of this scenario does not happen.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 19:34:54 pm
The rift between the nations after ww2 were settled in a short time. That made me laugh.
 Someone better tell some of the contributors on here that it has actually ended.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 25, 2018, 19:51:20 pm
It's ended for us. But not too sure about the old anti British chip on your shoulder. That looks to be still alive and kicking.  :-*
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 20:10:04 pm
It's ended for us. But not too sure about the old anti British chip on your shoulder. That looks to be still alive and kicking.  :-*

I did have an Anti in London once. She was a nurse during the war.  She has since passed on.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 25, 2018, 20:43:40 pm
Not being funny but you must be a serious embarrassment to any sensible Irishmen on here.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 25, 2018, 21:09:23 pm
That’s right you never are funny. You contemplate too much on your past decisions which you seem to justify on a regular basis. Good night. 🌙
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 25, 2018, 21:19:59 pm
Lost me on that one.

Never mind...sleep tight.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 25, 2018, 21:30:44 pm
Labour decision on Customs Union means we are one step closer to the Government falling. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 25, 2018, 21:35:54 pm
Beach Life.  Sorry don't bother to read your posts they are too long winded and tedious.  If you can't make your point in a couple of lines then you have fallen into the Tolstoy trap.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 26, 2018, 08:52:11 am
Beach Life.  Sorry don't bother to read your posts they are too long winded and tedious.  If you can't make your point in a couple of lines then you have fallen into the Tolstoy trap.

Wouldn`t expect someone who can`t understand a metaphor to read anything of any length.

Remainers constantly moan about the lack of detail and then complain when the argument is explained in more length. Maybe that`s why you don`t understand Brexit you have not grasped the details.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 26, 2018, 08:55:11 am
Labour decision on Customs Union means we are one step closer to the Government falling.

Well lets see what the northern strongholds of the labour party who voted for Brexit think if their Mp`s vote against Brexit. (Hope that was brief enough for you to understand).
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 09:04:03 am
The issue is no longer about the referendum, i.e. remainer or leaver, it is about the outcome of Brexit.

Brexit made promises and they are still being made.  Talk about double speak; Brexit means Brexit, there are only opportunities, our best days are in front of us, I am surprised one of the Brexit squad has not said today is the first day of the rest of your life...

Please don't be so sanctimonious; we are all too well informed to be preached to and really do not need anyone to 'explain' things about Brexit to us.

Brexit has to deliver the promises made to the people of the UK.  All of them (the people and the promises).  If it cannot be done by the current squad, who told us it was simple, it would only takes weeks, the EU would come begging the UK for a deal, then they need to stand down and let others deal with it and we should not rule out doing nothing (i.e. the Status Quo) as the solution.

Oh and your final comment was brief and spot on
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on February 26, 2018, 09:13:22 am
The big flaw in your argument is that no one actually made any promises. They all said what they thought it would/might be. Most of us took it all with a pinch of salt and made our own minds up. You sadly did not..
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 09:35:06 am
8 of the most misleading promises of the Vote Leave campaign, ranked in order of preposterousness:

1. We will see a fall in immigration levels.
No one in the Leave campaign actually gave any target figures, at any time, ever...just a promise that it would fall. Conservative MEP Dan Hannan has already said that people expecting immigration to come down will be "disappointed".  Immigration has gone up.

2. We will put an extra £100 million a week for the NHS
Nigel Farage has already told reporters that the Leave campaign shouldn't have claimed that. The NHS is really in trouble.

3. We can stay in the single market
No other country has a set up like that: both France and Germany have made it abundantly clear that we are not going to be able to have our cake and eat it, ie, take advantage of the free-trade zone without contributing a single penny to it, as Leave says we will.  Now they said we won't be staying in, but the fact is it was not the UK's choice it was the EU's.

4. We will get our sovereignty back
We still have the House of Lords. So there's that, but it looks increasingly unlikely.

5. We will save £350m a week
The Leave claim that the UK gives £350m a week to the EU has been thoroughly debunked. But it was still emblazoned on their battle bus right up until the end and restated by Boris Johnson in January 2018 as being even more than that.

6. We will remain a world leader in research and development
UK investment in science and universities dried up since the recession, whereas the EU gave us £7bn in science funding alone between 2007 - 2013.   We're are also going to face new barriers to collaboration with European universities and research centres.

7. We are going to save £2bn on energy bills
Leave promised we could end VAT on household energy bills and save £2bn. While reducing VAT is possible, it won't save us any money in reality because we rely on imports for so much of our energy.  Because the pound has fallen, inflation has gone up, which means imports and thus our domestic energy bills cost up to 12 per cent more than they did at the time of the referendum.

8. We are going to be a 'greater' Britain
The UK economy has already slumped from the fifth largest in the world to sixth and is now the slowest growth area of any G7 country. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 26, 2018, 11:05:19 am
Personally I think we now might get a reasonably good deal..not the best, but decent enough. Certainly not sure you will get your 8 points of preposterousness but they might just hit on a few of them.

One thing looks for sure JC appears to have shot himself in the foot trying to appease momentum and the hard left. If we had a General Election now I am convinced Labour would get trounced.

As for another referendum i think Farage is right and give it another go. I'm also convinced leave would win by a clear majority this time. We are all totally and utterly fed up with the whinging moaning remoaners. Lets get it on and shut em up forever. 

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 26, 2018, 11:10:01 am
this erry loser is so dumb, complains about long posts then posts a long post . . . . .

he so dumb he probbably thinks we should still be in the EU lol
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 26, 2018, 11:12:31 am
JC appears to have shot himself in the foot trying to appease momentum and the hard left.

the main problem corbyn has is people are simply not stupid enough to believe hes not just a career politician and hes only looking out for his own career.

it is funny though that some people are all fuzzy vision over this, very funny
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 11:15:11 am
Sorry Viva, it was a very long post.  Next Time I will do 8 separate ones so you can cope.  Again very, very sorry.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 26, 2018, 13:23:39 pm
Sorry Viva, it was a very long post.  Next Time I will do 8 separate ones so you can cope.  Again very, very sorry.

You said "The issue is no longer about the referendum" then go back to it with the 8 points.

No wonder you can`t understand whats going on.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 26, 2018, 13:28:46 pm
Here’s the real problem. Nations that try to protect themselves from the comparative advantages of other nations fail to continuously develop their own. And that is a good enough reason to leave. Immigration is not and should not be an issue. Europe’s competitiveness with the rest of the world is waning, and as it does, Europe will become an ever less attractive place to make a living. Of course, it will still be a pleasant place to live (and property will get cheaper). But in terms of being better off, the UK will perform better outside.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-has-shrunk-percentage-world-economy/
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 13:35:48 pm
Do you really need it spelled out point by point?
We do not know what people expected as a result of their vote.  Maybe remainers believed project fear.  Leavers accepted the promises they were made by Project Lies.  As Project Lies won it is reasonable that Leavers can expect what they were told/offered will be delivered. 
If it cannot be delivered then the referendum cannot be completed.  Or it can be completed in any fashion that suits the government including leaving in name only. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 26, 2018, 13:55:46 pm
Can you give an example of which election or referendum the winning party knew exactly what all the people wanted?

Any vote is a lottery as we out source our decision after the vote to a winning party. However if we don`t like it we can kick them out in 5 years.

Yes, the process is a mess but that’s for two basic reasons that have nothing to do with the final outcome. First, the EU is determined to make it a mess. Its approach, sadly, is cynical. This should help doubters solidify their views on the basic merits of being aligned with such an institution. Second, our government hasn’t properly understood its position in these talks and is doing little to maximise its advantage. It is too dependent on goodwill and friendship.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 14:08:01 pm
The binding referendum on proportional representation is my example.

By your own assertion this was not a binding referendum and therefore does not need to be honoured or can be treated like an ordinary general election vote that can be rerun in five years or less by agreement of parliament.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 26, 2018, 14:35:52 pm
According to the Cameron administration, it would be a binding referendum with no re-run. Out would mean out with no fudging and no ties chaining us to old trade deals. That's what I was lead to believe would happen and that's what looks like will happen. All credit to Teresa May for trying to implement the Cameron regimes promises. I don't think much of her as a PM but in that respect she is doing her utmost.

Get over yourself and stop whining. How many referendums on how many topics do you people want.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 14:49:31 pm
It was not a binding referendum.  That is a fact.  At no time was it stated that it was binding and the legislation to make it binding was never put forward. 

To do that the answers to the questions which are vexing us now would have been made law.

As many referendums as it takes to get it right.  After all Brexit only means Brexit.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 26, 2018, 16:02:05 pm
As many referendums as it takes to get it right for whom?

Maybe it is you but nothings vexing me...i'm quite happy with the way its progressing. We could be a little more demanding, but hey I don't expect the world.


Thankfully the moaners aren't being indulged so it looks like your calls for a referendum on a referendum and possibly another referendum until you think it's the right result are quite justly going to be ignored.



Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 26, 2018, 16:37:46 pm
It was not a binding referendum.  That is a fact.  At no time was it stated that it was binding and the legislation to make it binding was never put forward. 

To do that the answers to the questions which are vexing us now would have been made law.

As many referendums as it takes to get it right.  After all Brexit only means Brexit.

Its not a fact.

The Act itself does not say that it is advisory. At no point did ministers in their public statements either to Parliament or outside say that the referendum result would only be advisory. On the contrary, they repeatedly said that the referendum would allow the British people to decide the question of whether we remain or leave.

The power in law to give a notification under Article 50 used the prerogative power of the Crown which was exercised by the government without the need for Parliamentary consent or approval.

However for political reasons we may or may not see the government use these powers to implement any agreement ultimately made.


Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 26, 2018, 17:04:48 pm
can we have a mini referendum on perrys favourite tissue to wipe his eyes ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 26, 2018, 17:35:52 pm


Yes it is a fact.  Read the Act. The European Union Referendum Act 2015 (c. 36) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that made legal provision for a non-binding referendum to be held in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, on whether it should remain a member state of the European Union or leave it.

Unless Parliament actively agrees to bind itself to the result of a future referendum, it is not legally obliged to enact the outcome.   I've already given an example of a binding referendum.

No tears from me Viva, but I prefer Man Size.  Ask your mom or dad and they can explain that to you.  Bwahahaha

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: PHo on February 26, 2018, 17:51:21 pm
If we have a second referendum and vote against leaving, what do you think the EU will do, given that Article 50 is our notice of leaving?  No way will they welcome us back with open arms, reinstating our rebate and all our opt outs. Our choice will be to accept the terms that have been negotiated or to leave without a deal. It may be that the second would be preferable, but there is no chance we could just waltz back in as if nothing had happened.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 26, 2018, 18:18:40 pm
Out of 46,500,000 available to vote 17,400,000 voted to leave. 63% voted against or did not vote. Strange old democracy in the UK.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 26, 2018, 18:23:14 pm
Of course they would. Being among the biggest contributors to EU coffers they would have us back without question. Where is the extra money coming from after we leave? Poland, Romania? The terms we went back on would be how determined the government was to hold them to ransom. They need us more than we need them.

What is it with this almost childlike need to be cosseted by some outside entity that really has no interest in you or your country...just your money.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 26, 2018, 18:26:48 pm
Out of 46,500,000 available to vote 17,400,000 voted to leave. 63% voted against or did not vote. Strange old democracy in the UK.

Strange it may be but that IS democracy. Not only do you get a choice who to vote for.... you also get a choice whether to vote at all.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 26, 2018, 19:11:34 pm
What is it with this almost childlike need to be cosseted by some outside entity that really has no interest in you or your country...just your money.

these sobbing remainers need to get a backbone.

id lock them up for treason if blair and co didnt remove those laws prior to committing massive treason.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: whyme on February 27, 2018, 07:08:38 am
Does Ashworth manipulate the figures for labour. Using your logic 67% of people either voted to leave or didn't vote. A pretty healthy majority.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 27, 2018, 08:10:17 am
Does Ashworth manipulate the figures for labour. Using your logic 67% of people either voted to leave or didn't vote. A pretty healthy majority.
Out of a population of 66,436,386 only 17,400,000 voted to leave.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 27, 2018, 08:47:32 am
So am I correct that out of a population 66,436,386 million only 16,141,241 voted to remain ?.

And of that 16 odd million, 90% of them have embraced democracy and believe we should forge ahead and get the best deal possible. The miniscule 10% left ?...easy to draw your own conclusions after seeing some of their arguments on here.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 27, 2018, 09:08:24 am
thinks nobody has worked out the hypocritical stance that my point of view is based on whats best for me, as I dont live in UK and couldnt care less if its worse for you living in UK

on point

"lets do things the dumbest way possble becuase its easier for me"
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 27, 2018, 09:09:57 am
It doesn’t really make any difference what the percentages were. More voted to leave than to stay so leave won the vote. If anyone didn’t bother to vote then their views/opinions don’t count !! End of !!! That is democracy in action !!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 27, 2018, 10:06:00 am
Well Spitty, I agree that Brexit won and that has been the basis of my arguments.  I don't agree that those who voted against or did not vote are not permitted to voice an opinion.  We did not stop being a democracy the day after the Referendum.  People have the right to voice their views.  It would be nice if people showed respect when doing so but there will always be those who can't help to be blustery bullies.

We have been promised the best possible deal.  That was not the basis of the campaign.  I've pointed out eight of the promises made by Brexit that we would enjoy upon leaving and there are more.  If we can't have those then who is to say that the best possible deal is... no deal or to stay in the EU.  Those are the two extremes and I will argue that a Referendum based on No Deal and Staying In may well yield a very different split than a vote based on the Brexit promises vs Project Fear.

I stand by my position that nobody is going to be happy with the outcome.  To move the debate on I am more interested now in knowing what people think about how long the 'new' arrangement' will hold up.  There is strong evidence that by 2020 demographics alone will shift the balance.  We do not know what the new deal is yet.  But we can all speculate.

I will start the game by saying that if the New Deal is No Deal then it will not pass Parliament.  What do you think?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 27, 2018, 10:22:41 am
To say people who did not vote should not be permitted to voice an opinion, is a bit harsh, although I believe if you did not vote and you have an opinion at the ballot box was the place to do it, we did not vote, for reasons I have stated before, and if I have a comment to make on Brexit I always make it clear that we did not vote.

Again but only in my opinion, and from speaking to a number of people here a lot of people simply did not believe the vote would be to leave and to quote one or two people prior to The Referendum "Even if we vote to leave, it will not be allowed to happen"
Well, we did and it is going to happen.

"The best possible deal" that covers a lot of ground best for who? The British public, The EU or the best possible deal obtainable?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on February 27, 2018, 10:44:04 am
To clarify: I didn’t mean that people who didn’t vote were not entitled to an opinion, I said that if they did not vote “their views/opinion don’t count”. Maybe I didn’t make that as clear as I meant it. What I did mean was that the place to make that opinion count was at the ballot box, if they couldn’t be bothered (obviously not you JR & people in a similar situation) to vote then their opinion does not matter the vote is over & the decision made, whatever way it went. 😁😁😁
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 27, 2018, 11:08:23 am
I have to agree May will have a tough time getting a no deal scenario through Parliament. But she can only take it a pace at a time and front up to the challenges that come her way. What happens then is anyone's guess ....but that uncertainty, political paralysis and the damage to Britains reputation it causes will be wholly the fault of undemocratic Europhiles.
To my mind a no deal has to be better than a deal brokered in favour of the EU, who's eventual terms are dictated by the EU and which prevents us from any way in negotiating our own global trade deals or passing our own laws and regulations and without interference by anybody..
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 27, 2018, 11:15:23 am
I have to agree May will have a tough time getting a no deal scenario through Parliament. But she can only take it a pace at a time and front up to the challenges that come her way. What happens then is anyone's guess ....but that uncertainty, political paralysis and the damage to Britains reputation it causes will be wholly the fault of undemocratic Europhiles.
To my mind a no deal has to be better than a deal brokered in favour of the EU, who's eventual terms are dictated by the EU and which prevents us from any way in negotiating our own global trade deals or passing our own laws and regulations and without interference by anybody..
Its like being a salesman in Manchester and you have a full order book from your local clients. Then you cancel all your accounts and go looking for new business in far afield places and after a while you think why have I done this I wish I could go back to the way it was.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 27, 2018, 11:21:29 am
Its like being a salesman in Manchester and you have a full order book from your local clients. Then you cancel all your accounts and go looking for new business in far afield places and after a while you think why have I done this I wish I could go back to the way it was.

I actually did that, and im far better off financially for doing so.

i think your just scared, worried, afraid, non of those words could ever describe me ;)

actully ive just remembered, I have in fact done this twice.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on February 27, 2018, 12:28:52 pm
Its like being a salesman in Manchester and you have a full order book from your local clients. Then you cancel all your accounts and go looking for new business in far afield places and after a while you think why have I done this I wish I could go back to the way it was.

I actually did that, and im far better off financially for doing so.

i think your just scared, worried, afraid, non of those words could ever describe me ;)

actully ive just remembered, I have in fact done this twice.
Perhaps you should offer your remarkable skills to the Government as they need all the help they can get as most of them could not run a bath
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 27, 2018, 13:35:05 pm
Perhaps you should offer your remarkable skills to the Government as they need all the help they can get as most of them could not run a bath

they couldnt afford me ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on February 27, 2018, 13:54:14 pm


Yes it is a fact.  Read the Act. The European Union Referendum Act 2015 (c. 36) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that made legal provision for a non-binding referendum to be held in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, on whether it should remain a member state of the European Union or leave it.

Unless Parliament actively agrees to bind itself to the result of a future referendum, it is not legally obliged to enact the outcome.   I've already given an example of a binding referendum.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/36/enacted

European Union Referendum Act 2015
2015 CHAPTER 36
An Act to make provision for the holding of a referendum in the United Kingdom and Gibraltar on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union.

[17th December 2015]

I don`t see non binding.

Are you confusing the case regarding Article 50?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on February 27, 2018, 20:10:34 pm
Pointless rerunning the referendum. A mistake? Almost certainly, but have to make the best of the situation, I suspect there will be a lot of twists and turns over the coming three years 😎
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 28, 2018, 08:37:44 am
During Second Reading of the Bill in the Lords, the minister said that referendums were advisory, it was pointed out that the 2011 referendum on an alternative voting system was binding – had there been a ‘yes’ vote, the AV system would have been introduced under section 8 of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011.  However, the Constitution Committee did subsequently write to the minister to remind her of this and it is unlikely that officials in the Cabinet Office were unaware of such a basic point.  The Bill could have included provision for notification to be given under Article 50 in the event of a majority voting for Leave.  It was not done.  It was advisory and that is why it was tested in Court and ruled that it was advisory only and required an Act Of Parliament to trigger Article 50.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 28, 2018, 09:19:56 am
are you STILL crying over brexit ?

wow get a grip, its done, its over, no matter how many tears you shed or vocal chords you break howling about your loss it wont change a thing, grow up.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 28, 2018, 12:17:16 pm
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/financenewsitaly/the-high-street-spending-crisis-is-starting-to-claim-scalps-with-a-28percent-increase-in-shops-going-bust/ar-BBI8V18?li=BBx1bGE&ocid=iehp

the financial mess we are in right now was created by gordon browns labour party, our children will still be paying for this mess when they are in retirement.

they stole our kids futures, and this is the fallout from that.

just remember, never ever vote labour again, anyone but!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 28, 2018, 12:26:45 pm
Something tells me the anti brexit weeping and wailing is just going to intensify over the coming months. The nearer the Government gets to a decent deal, the louder and more robust the objections will become. Any move in negotiations towards a deal more productive to the EU than the UK will most likely be met with smug pleasure.

You know where it's coming from so just stick in your ear plugs, hold onto your hats and stick up a Churchillian salute..  ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 28, 2018, 12:33:54 pm
Something tells me the anti brexit weeping and wailing is just going to intensify over the coming months. The nearer the Government gets to a decent deal, the louder and more robust the objections will become. Any move in negotiations towards a deal more productive to the EU than the UK will most likely be met with smug pleasure.

You know where it's coming from so just stick in your ear plugs, hold onto your hats and stick up a Churchillian salute..  ;)

Stick it up where!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on February 28, 2018, 13:42:56 pm
Labour responsible for all  our current financial woes😂 and you call remainers deluded 😂
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 28, 2018, 13:45:51 pm
Something tells me the anti brexit weeping and wailing is just going to intensify over the coming months. The nearer the Government gets to a decent deal, the louder and more robust the objections will become. Any move in negotiations towards a deal more productive to the EU than the UK will most likely be met with smug pleasure.

You know where it's coming from so just stick in your ear plugs, hold onto your hats and stick up a Churchillian salute..  ;)

Stick it up where!

A clue... the sun don't shine there.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 28, 2018, 14:24:05 pm
Something tells me the anti brexit weeping and wailing is just going to intensify over the coming months. The nearer the Government gets to a decent deal, the louder and more robust the objections will become. Any move in negotiations towards a deal more productive to the EU than the UK will most likely be met with smug pleasure.

You know where it's coming from so just stick in your ear plugs, hold onto your hats and stick up a Churchillian salute..  ;)

Stick it up where!

A clue... the sun don't shine there.
Please show a bit of respect towards  the Statesman who assisted general Patton to liberated France.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 28, 2018, 15:05:42 pm
MPs to be given free vote on Brexit deal
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 28, 2018, 15:34:16 pm
some bloke from years ago asks for MPs to be given free vote on Brexit deal

correction ;)

you must HATE UK
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: PHo on February 28, 2018, 16:50:21 pm
And whether the vote is free or not, their choice will be to accept the deal on offer or leave without a deal. We are out either way.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on February 28, 2018, 17:21:00 pm
John Major was a weak and not particularly able Prime Minister when in office. Nobody listened to him then , so as with Tony Blair I'd be surprised if anyone took any notice of him now.

Is the remain argument that weak that they have to keep trawling out these flawed 'Political has beens' to make a case ?. It truly is pathetic.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 28, 2018, 18:29:47 pm
John Major was a weak and not particularly able Prime Minister when in office. Nobody listened to him then , so as with Tony Blair I'd be surprised if anyone took any notice of him now.

Is the remain argument that weak that they have to keep trawling out these flawed 'Political has beens' to make a case ?. It truly is pathetic.

the only thing major was good at was with the economy, he handed labour the most bouyant economy we have ever seen.

only for labour to turn that round and give the worst economy we have ever known. like they did the last time they where in office.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on February 28, 2018, 19:06:37 pm
John Major was a weak and not particularly able Prime Minister when in office. Nobody listened to him then , so as with Tony Blair I'd be surprised if anyone took any notice of him now.

Is the remain argument that weak that they have to keep trawling out these flawed 'Political has beens' to make a case ?. It truly is pathetic.

the only thing major was good at was with the economy, he handed labour the most bouyant economy we have ever seen.

only for labour to turn that round and give the worst economy we have ever known. like they did the last time they where in office.
No true, he was good with Edwina also.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on February 28, 2018, 19:45:08 pm
This delusion that labour are the source of all the country’s problems, just devalues any other points of view you propose, no doubt you blame aneurin bevan for all the problems in the NHS😎😂
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on February 28, 2018, 21:13:01 pm
EU nationals who arrive in the UK during the transition period after Brexit will be eligible for indefinite leave to remain, the government says.

Freedom of movement technically continues.  Another Brexit u turn
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on February 28, 2018, 21:36:45 pm
EU nationals who arrive in the UK during the transition period after Brexit will be eligible for indefinite leave to remain, the government says.

Freedom of movement technically continues.  Another Brexit u turn

but dont you think that is only fair ? are you a racist or something ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 01, 2018, 07:17:29 am
Posted at 5 am. Obviously had a sleepless night, mulling over brexit LOL


and he doesn't even  live in the UK. :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 01, 2018, 08:51:23 am
A quote from one of the links

"The pound fell to a three-week low against the dollar and U.K. government bonds rose as the European Union’s chief negotiator warned a Brexit transition period for the U.K. was not guaranteed."

in fact, the pound has dropped .0153% or about 1 cent since Dec !st 2017 I am in a state of panic ::)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 01, 2018, 10:34:18 am
I am in a state of panic ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsmwITd8ycE
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 01, 2018, 10:35:25 am
Posted at 5 am. Obviously had a sleepless night, mulling over brexit LOL


and he doesn't even  live in the UK. :D :D :D :D

nothing would please him more than us getting screwed over.

traitor
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 01, 2018, 10:42:02 am
Plenty of them about. Tory politicians among them.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 11:26:35 am
You Brexiters are a busted flush and heading for years of poverty and you know it.
Your people in government can hardly agree on what day of the week it is.
You are now at the stage of blaming everyone and everything for you own stupid decision and what’s worse you know you messed up but won’t admit it.
The world has moved on and may not be interested in the stuff you produce as they are already supplied with most of their needs from reliable sources.
Look what happened the motor manufacturers. They went out of business making pure outdated rubbish. The Japanese and Germans and French had to come in and up date your factory’s
show you how its done.
At the moment Britain just assembles goods with components made all over Europe and sticks a “made in Uk” sticker on it.
Lets see how that goes after Brexit. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 01, 2018, 11:39:13 am
Of course you are right...let's see how it goes. If we all hang in there to get the best deal possible and do get it, we can have no excuses.

If the establishment and Political opponents to brexit keep up the constant negativity to  the Governments efforts, we won't get it. And will have every excuse with the added bonus of being able to blame you.

Or should I say them.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 01, 2018, 12:23:17 pm
dagwood has only ever been right about one thing, that time he admitted he was a daft racist.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: emmi on March 01, 2018, 12:34:44 pm
Good news
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/28/toyota-to-build-new-generation-auris-car-in-derbyshire
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 01, 2018, 12:43:41 pm
Good news
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/28/toyota-to-build-new-generation-auris-car-in-derbyshire

Em,  please delete this post as it is obviously False News ::), and we cannot have the remoaners reading that it could lead to mass suicides :)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 12:49:21 pm
Good news
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/28/toyota-to-build-new-generation-auris-car-in-derbyshire

Excellent,
I’m sure you read the full article including this part,

“With around 85% of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 01, 2018, 13:00:47 pm
Excellent,
I’m sure you read the full article including this part,

“With around 85% of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”

your only concerned as you dont want to have to pay for the slack like we all paid for yours for decades.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 13:18:33 pm
Excellent,
I’m sure you read the full article including this part,

“With around 85% of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”

your only concerned as you dont want to have to pay for the slack like we all paid for yours for decades.



Viva you know I only care about you and I was afraid you left me for perrypower😭😭😭
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on March 01, 2018, 13:38:49 pm
EU Brexit backstop paves the way for a reunited island of Ireland.  Theresa talk tough May's response has been to give PERMANENT Freedom of Movement to a large range of EU Citizens. 

Soon nobody will admit to voting for Leave...just a matter of time.

But in the meantime, come on Brexit you made promises to the people.  Stand and Deliver or stand aside!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 01, 2018, 14:13:58 pm
EU Brexit backstop paves the way for a reunited island of Ireland.  Theresa talk tough May's response has been to give PERMANENT Freedom of Movement to a large range of EU Citizens. 

Soon nobody will admit to voting for Leave...just a matter of time.

But in the meantime, come on Brexit you made promises to the people.  Stand and Deliver or stand aside!

remainer fails to admit brexit was not about immigration, it was about not being told what to do by a corrupt and failing organisation.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 14:56:34 pm
EU Brexit backstop paves the way for a reunited island of Ireland.  Theresa talk tough May's response has been to give PERMANENT Freedom of Movement to a large range of EU Citizens. 

Soon nobody will admit to voting for Leave...just a matter of time.

But in the meantime, come on Brexit you made promises to the people.  Stand and Deliver or stand aside!

They ( Mrs May & co) signed a binding agreement with the Irish government and the EU about the border issue just before Christmas and now they are trying to get out of it. Another fine mess.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 01, 2018, 19:22:51 pm
The Irish border is an academic conundrum and should be no more than that. It is only the EU that is turning it into a stumbling block. Every border in the world is a mish-mash of compromises and physical borders aren’t even that effective anyway.

The EU says there can’t be a hard border. Fine, don’t put one there. I have a small garden and would rather not have an oak tree in it. How do I avoid it? By not putting one there. They tell us that leaving the customs union requires it. No it doesn’t. When the UK leaves the customs union, that claim will be disproven the instant you watch it not implement a hard border. The EU would then be in the embarrassing position of either forcing Ireland to implement a hard border, or not doing so.

Solutions are available but the EU simply rejects (and mocks) all of them because it prefers the Irish border to remain a problem.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 19:56:57 pm
The Irish border is an academic conundrum and should be no more than that. It is only the EU that is turning it into a stumbling block. Every border in the world is a mish-mash of compromises and physical borders aren’t even that effective anyway.

The EU says there can’t be a hard border. Fine, don’t put one there. I have a small garden and would rather not have an oak tree in it. How do I avoid it? By not putting one there. They tell us that leaving the customs union requires it. No it doesn’t. When the UK leaves the customs union, that claim will be disproven the instant you watch it not implement a hard border. The EU would then be in the embarrassing position of either forcing Ireland to implement a hard border, or not doing so.

Solutions are available but the EU simply rejects (and mocks) all of them because it prefers the Irish border to remain a problem.
How else would the EU check that substandard unregulated  British goods were not getting in the back door into Europe.
The last thing we in Ireland need is a border, what we do want is to see the brits out of our country and then they could do whatever the liked about the customs union
I hope you remember this drivel you wrote when you see the refugees passing through Ulster on their way to a new life in England.
BTW.  we won’t be delaying them.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 01, 2018, 21:11:51 pm
If we were negotiating with Ireland, we’d find a way to sort it out. Both countries are inherently pragmatic and don’t allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. However, we’re not negotiating with Ireland, we’re negotiating with the EU, which has an agenda to prevent or water down Brexit. Such issues therefore assume a theological status. (Actually that’s an insult to theology).

Furthermore, people who claim that the commitment to a soft border with Ireland requires us to be in the EU customs union, thereby preventing us having anything but the EU’s trade and regulatory policies are clutching at straws, looking for something, anything, to keep us in the EU (in all but name). They commit a gross insult to our sovereignty as a nation. The insinuation that the EU is something you are not allowed to leave (and if you try, it’ll force you to stay by weaponising a historic sensitivity and against you), is a profoundly disturbing one.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 21:24:53 pm
If we were negotiating with Ireland, we’d find a way to sort it out. Both countries are inherently pragmatic and don’t allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. However, we’re not negotiating with Ireland, we’re negotiating with the EU, which has an agenda to prevent or water down Brexit. Such issues therefore assume a theological status. (Actually that’s an insult to theology).

Furthermore, people who claim that the commitment to a soft border with Ireland requires us to be in the EU customs union, thereby preventing us having anything but the EU’s trade and regulatory policies are clutching at straws, looking for something, anything, to keep us in the EU (in all but name). They commit a gross insult to our sovereignty as a nation. The insinuation that the EU is something you are not allowed to leave (and if you try, it’ll force you to stay by weaponising a historic sensitivity and against you), is a profoundly disturbing one.
Unadulterated drivel and it’s becoming clear that even Viva has a better grasp of the situation than you.
As Ireland is part of the EU any negotiations is thefore with the EU.
The brexiters have messed up and will blame anybody and everyone to deflect the truth. You will be potless.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 01, 2018, 21:36:36 pm

[/quote]
 How else would the EU check that substandard unregulated  British goods were not getting in the back door into Europe.
The last thing we in Ireland need is a border, what we do want is to see the brits out of our country and then they could do whatever the liked about the customs union
I hope you remember this drivel you wrote when you see the refugees passing through Ulster on their way to a new life in England.
BTW.  we won’t be delaying them.
[/quote]
It’s worth repeating: trading across a border does not require the law to be enforced, at the border. It is just one enforcement mechanism among many and substantially less effective than others.

Of course, you can worry about people hopping across the border to buy milk and petrol if you like, but people who make a point of worrying about such things are either obsessive or paranoid; the sort of people who might say: “after Brexit, we’ll need proof your milk isn’t contaminated with radioactive substances”. This point was well made by former Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern.

As for Ireland as a weapon sending hordes of immigrants to punish the UK for leaving the UK well you and I can spend time talking drivel together when that happens. As someone with dual nationality (UK and Irish passport). I have greater belief than you in the inherent common sense of the Irish people.

The reality is, almost nothing about law enforcement save for extreme differences (eg as is the case between Iraq and Iran), is improved by having a hard border.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 22:04:18 pm

How else would the EU check that substandard unregulated  British goods were not getting in the back door into Europe.
The last thing we in Ireland need is a border, what we do want is to see the brits out of our country and then they could do whatever the liked about the customs union
I hope you remember this drivel you wrote when you see the refugees passing through Ulster on their way to a new life in England.
BTW.  we won’t be delaying them.
[/quote]
It’s worth repeating: trading across a border does not require the law to be enforced, at the border. It is just one enforcement mechanism among many and substantially less effective than others.

Of course, you can worry about people hopping across the border to buy milk and petrol if you like, but people who make a point of worrying about such things are either obsessive or paranoid; the sort of people who might say: “after Brexit, we’ll need proof your milk isn’t contaminated with radioactive substances”. This point was well made by former Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern.

As for Ireland as a weapon sending hordes of immigrants to punish the UK for leaving the UK well you and I can spend time talking drivel together when that happens. As someone with dual nationality (UK and Irish passport). I have greater belief than you in the inherent common sense of the Irish people.

The reality is, almost nothing about law enforcement save for extreme differences (eg as is the case between Iraq and Iran), is improved by having a hard border.
[/quote]
You know sending hordes of immigrants to Britain is another misinterpretation of the truth. The fact is Ireland will be the only land border (except Gibraltar and we know what that’s like) so therefore the direct way from Europe to Britain. I pointed out that Ireland would not delay them on their journey out of the EU.
Have you ever stood on the Irish border before the Good Friday agreement or before the EU introduced freedom of movement.
May I ask one question ?
After Brexit is completed which passport will you be traveling within Europe on ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 01, 2018, 22:05:56 pm
the only people still crying over brexit didnt even get a vote
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 22:16:28 pm
the only people still crying over brexit didnt even get a vote

No crying Viva, the sooner they go the better but take all the rubbish with them.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 01, 2018, 22:33:26 pm

You know sending hordes of immigrants to Britain is another misinterpretation of the truth. The fact is Ireland will be the only land border (except Gibraltar and we know what that’s like) so therefore the direct way from Europe to Britain. I pointed out that Ireland would not delay them on their journey out of the EU.
Have you ever stood on the Irish border before the Good Friday agreement or before the EU introduced freedom of movement.
May I ask one question ?
After Brexit is completed which passport will you be traveling within Europe on ?
[/quote]

The Gibraltar border has been open in the past it was the the Spanish who closed it not the British. Causing more problems to Spanish residents who work in Gibraltar due the high unemployment in Spain. However the EU has done nothing about this seems, they can have certain rules which they ignore when it suits them.

To answer your question I`ll use my British passport after brexit when travelling. Why will I not be allowed to visit Europe after brexit???
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 22:43:45 pm
Of course you will but you Will be in the Non EU Q as you well know.
Have a listen to Sting singing An Englishman in New York now change the words to An Englishman in Dundalk and you might get the message.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 01, 2018, 23:14:02 pm
Who suggested the British closed the Gibraltar border.
Not me.
But I can understand Spain’s worries about a tax free area with low cost cigs and Booz plus the possibility of money laundering on its doorstep.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 07:25:31 am
Irish border now...what will be the next little road block you bring up when that's sorted. as it will be. Anything to keep harassing the process, chipping away bit by bit and hoping the whole brexit concept will cave in.

Well it won't. For every negative you throw at it there is always a positive to counter it.

You sound like a bunch of dying swans on here with your continual griping. Surely you as an Irishman have more pressing things to worry about than brexit. Fact is our opinions don't count any more (  with no referendum vote your's never did at all). We took the one chance they gave us to offer our opinion on EU membership and we used it well, choosing to leave.

Britain will do well out of brexit if allowed by the enemy in our midst to get a good deal. And I can't wait to start crowing about it when we do.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 09:05:54 am
Don't even read 'em.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 09:17:40 am
the only people still crying over brexit didnt even get a vote

No crying Viva, the sooner they go the better but take all the rubbish with them.

That's the point of getting a good deal. We leave all the rubbish behind. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 02, 2018, 09:39:49 am
crying

but your irish, its nothing to do with you ? you and perry are crying about an event you didnt even get a say in.

its nothing to do with you other than we will no longer be carrying you financially, boo hoo
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 02, 2018, 09:40:29 am
Don't even read 'em.

never do
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 02, 2018, 10:00:53 am
Don't even read 'em.

never do

I will not in the future
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 10:26:06 am
Don't even read 'em.

never do







I will not in the future

The old ostrich syndrome or should I say dodo.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 02, 2018, 11:00:37 am
:'(

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 11:11:36 am
Good news
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/28/toyota-to-build-new-generation-auris-car-in-derbyshire

Em,  please delete this post as it is obviously False News ::), and we cannot have the remoaners reading that it could lead to mass suicides :)


You apparently didn’t read this one either.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 12:21:06 pm
crying

but your irish, its nothing to do with you ? you and perry are crying about an event you didnt even get a say in.

its nothing to do with you other than we will no longer be carrying you financially, boo hoo

And there amid all the positives and negatives, tooing and froing, moaning and whinging, we have the one and only true reason for the ridiculous and often inane opposition to the UK leaving the EU....MONEY... or what could end up being the lack of it.

When one of the the major bank rollers of your club sees the light and decides to move on and spend their money elsewhere then as sure as night follows day panic will set in. Deny it all you like, and bombard us with  Irish borders, immigration or trade but we all know at the end of the day its losing our contributions you are scared of.
Now don't get me wrong, I can understand that after shafting us for so long and giving very little in return it must come as a severe shock to realize the gravy train flow of UK funds is going to become a trickle and then zilch. It would scare me, so I understand your fears that you may now have to rely on Greece, Italy and eastern European states to come up with the dinero, I can even to a certain extent understand your pathetic clinging onto every negative straw to keep us in. Well good luck with the new club funding arrangements without us matey ..I don't fancy your chances of getting much. And neither do the EU bigwigs. They know it and we know it. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 12:34:28 pm
Wonderful piece of bull but could please tell me what you intend to export to these new markets that is not part manufactured in another EU country.
But of course these things were not mentioned before the vote.
Your all living in cloud cuckoo land I’m sorry to report.
Lets hear what Tessie has to say later today.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 12:46:51 pm
crying

but your irish, its nothing to do with you ? you and perry are crying about an event you didnt even get a say in.

its nothing to do with you other than we will no longer be carrying you financially, boo hoo
We love watching the true blue brits making  a total tool of themselves but we also feel for the sensible  people who want to remain. It’s a spectator sport and nothing to do with money.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 13:10:24 pm
You might have to order your trousers with much deeper pockets in the future Scarey eh?  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 13:18:09 pm
You might have to order your trousers with much deeper pockets in the future Scarey eh?  :D :D :D

There will be red white and blue boxes in Irish pubs and shops asking “help the Brits  with you loose change“ now that’s Scary eh.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 02, 2018, 13:25:37 pm
:'(
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 13:49:12 pm
crying

but your irish, its nothing to do with you ? you and perry are crying about an event you didnt even get a say in.

its nothing to do with you other than we will no longer be carrying you financially, boo hoo
We love watching the true blue brits making  a total tool of themselves but we also feel for the sensible  people who want to remain. It’s a spectator sport and nothing to do with money.


Of course it's the money and well you know it. How else do you explain your irrational and sometimes bizarre predictions of brexit. Is it because you love us and want the best for us.?   :-* Come off it, you can't fool us. WE know. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 15:26:23 pm
crying

but your irish, its nothing to do with you ? you and perry are crying about an event you didnt even get a say in.

its nothing to do with you other than we will no longer be carrying you financially, boo hoo
We love watching the true blue brits making  a total tool of themselves but we also feel for the sensible  people who want to remain. It’s a spectator sport and nothing to do with money


Of course it's the money and well you know it. How else do you explain your irrational and sometimes bizarre predictions of brexit. Is it because you love us and want the best for us.?   :-* Come off it, you can't fool us. WE know. ;)

It looks to me that you are doing an excellent job at fooling yourself and neither you or your altered ego know very little about anything.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 15:31:51 pm
Talking of altered ego's how's perry?  ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 02, 2018, 16:10:28 pm
Talking of altered ego's how's perry?  ;)
Better ask perry
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 02, 2018, 16:35:44 pm
I just have...
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 02, 2018, 16:55:50 pm
:'(
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 02, 2018, 22:45:20 pm

[/quote]
 How else would the EU check that substandard unregulated  British goods were not getting in the back door into Europe.
The last thing we in Ireland need is a border, what we do want is to see the brits out of our country and then they could do whatever the liked about the customs union
I hope you remember this drivel you wrote when you see the refugees passing through Ulster on their way to a new life in England.
BTW.  we won’t be delaying them.
[/quote]

Here’s one alternative: if there’s a product that’s legal in the UK but illegal in Ireland, make it illegal in the UK to sell it in Ireland. And vice versa. Enforce the law in the normal way, through the police and the courts.

Even where hard borders exist, few consignments of goods are checked at the point that they cross. What’d be the point? You detect hardly anything that way. Instead, you require exporters to register the goods and certify their conformity, at point of origin. The recipient does the customs clearance at destination, by registering receipt with the customs authority. That’s how the vast majority of international trade is done. It’s effective, efficient and a well trodden path. And it depends not in the least, on a customs presence at the border.

If we find the UK exporter has lied about conformity, he can be reported by the Irish authorities to the UK authorities and prosecuted in the UK. That’s an extra layer of protection we can offer the Irish, to give them confidence that future trade can be managed, without necessitating enforcement at the border.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 00:32:08 am
The last thing we in Ireland need is

"lets do this the dumbest way possible as its easier for me"

thats a bit selfish isnt it ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on March 03, 2018, 07:23:19 am
Good morning everyone.  I am pleased to see I've been missed.  Don't worry I am fine; just been busy with real life. 

So we now have the world according to Brexit.  Doesn't sound anything like what was advertised and you know at best we will get half of what TM is asking for. 

I don't want to hear the howl of tears from all the disappointed leavers so I will let each of you to do your own nit-picking as Reese-Moog calls it.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 03, 2018, 07:28:28 am
ok daggie  ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 10:50:46 am
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 11:13:57 am
And a cold snowy morning it is. The Beast from the east.
 I hope you all read Tessies letter to Santa. I think she may be disappointed.
And the Donald threw a large spaner in the works. Maybe no one noticed or heads are sill in the sand and refuse to read anything that tells it as it as it is. 
Well that’s they said the other day.

Enjoy your day.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 03, 2018, 11:25:47 am
Well lets wait and see what she gets and what she doesn't without trying to pre empt the situation to suit your own  agenda.

Have some patience.

and tell perry not to get so excited. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 11:29:06 am
No rush on me whatsoever , didn’t Tessie light the fuse with article 50. As Viva would say the longer it goes on the longer she pays.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 03, 2018, 11:35:19 am
Brexit really is turning into a dogs dinner, labour flip flopping, conservatives like Boris back tracking on all those promises, Reed Mogg still living in his bubble and the EU acting like the bunch of self serving/ malicious bureaucrats we knew they were. Not sure a referendum was the right way to make such an important  decision. Not impressed with comments about Irish refugees, smacks to me of racists undertones. 😎
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 11:43:04 am
I think you may have misread the post about Irish refugees.
The post refers to refugees passing through Ireland on their way to the only land border the UK has with the EU.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 03, 2018, 11:54:07 am
Sorry if I did, felt it may have had a sectarian tone, anyway, we need that frictionless boarder, I think ken Clarke was so right last night on question time , ( and I would never vote conservative) this is such a complex process, none of which was fully explained prior to the referendum, by either side! people are losing the will to live. The world is not black And white but multifaceted shades of gray, and aren’t we learning that the hard way 😎
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 12:03:23 pm
Ken Clarke was right.
Nobody stopped to think of the complexities of Leaving and if they had they would have spent more time explaining them to the electorate and less time painting red buses with silly nonsense. 
This thing can only get worse and divide the people and wreck the UK economy. I know there will be war declared on me for telling it as it is.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 03, 2018, 12:10:32 pm
Ken Clarke was right.
Nobody stopped to think of the complexities of Leaving and if they had they would have spent more time explaining them to the electorate and less time painting red buses with silly nonsense. 
This thing can only get worse and divide the people and wreck the UK economy. I know there will be war declared on me for telling it as it is.

While I agree with nearly all of that, at the end of the day it is going to happen, and it is time everyone in The UK realised it and got behind the people doing the negotiating, because irrespective of what their political leanings are, it is time to move on and unite not behind the government so much as against the shysters in The EU.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 12:33:40 pm
While I agree the EU leave a lot to be desired and need to be kicked in the butt regularly and some may be corrupt they haven’t messed this one up.
Britain is caught standing there with its trousers over its arm and the EU know it.
It was the lack of information and Rule Britannia living in the past mob that fecked this up.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 12:35:38 pm
smacks to me of racists undertones. 😎

dagwood a racists ? again ?

I thought he promised to be nice now ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 12:36:44 pm
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(PLEASE DONT LEAVE EU :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( WE CANT AFFFORD FOR YOU TO NOT PAY OUR BILLS FOR US :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 03, 2018, 12:38:13 pm
You all appear to think the EU are shysters.

Why would you want to do business with a shyster, let alone be a business PARTNER.

And if you think leaving a decision like brexit to the Politicians is the way forward rather than the people think again. They are all career politicians and will have made their decisions of in or out on the back of that.

Why not wait and see what happens you may be happily surprised. Or in daggies case disappointed.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 12:45:02 pm
It was the lack of information

hang on, is this the irony of a isrishman calling the brits thick ?

LOL

muppet
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 12:47:16 pm
Doesn’t change anything Ivedmovedon.
The shysters on both sides of the divide in Britain messed up by telling half truths to the electorate and are now paying the price.
When you think of it what do you have to bargain with. Not a lot that I can see.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 13:16:34 pm
FTSE heading below 7000 £ to Euro 1.12. What a mess we are getting ourselves into.

And you haven’t left the EU yet.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 13:27:55 pm
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

and you be locked up for treason if labour didnt remove those laws before committing MASSIVE treaon.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

cry more
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 03, 2018, 14:14:36 pm
Viva, find a dark room and lie down in it😂 no one’s treasonous for questioning the validity of arguments put forward in the referendum, but, it’s past now and we have to make the best of it and pull together to get the best solution for all the people in the U.K., hoprefully the EU will realise that scapegoating us is in the end counter productive 😎
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 03, 2018, 17:13:01 pm
We've been saying that on and off for 260 odd posts now. But unfortunately there are certain people who are not interested in seeing how it goes.... or seeing any positives in anything to do with brexit for that matter. Nor are they overly bothered with us getting a decent deal. Why?. Because it will please them to see us fail, and please them even more to see the EU grind our noses into the dirt. Why again?. Who knows... but it's very odd to see their slavish attitude to the EU and hold it's interest in more regard than Britain's. Anyone who is even half way to being patriotic cannot help getting cheesed off listening to them.



When viva talks of treason I think that's where his accusation is directed. And some could well say he's not wrong.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 03, 2018, 17:19:46 pm
Will the UK and the EU reach a deal? I’d say it’s 50–50. The EU will try to drive a hard bargain and will argue that the UK (or parts of it) must be in the customs union to satisfy their requirements on the Irish border. The UK won’t accept this. One side will have to give way. (They won’t “give way” as such — there will be a face saving, perhaps temporary, fudge). But if nobody gives way there will be no deal.

What will happen then? They’ll fudge it of course. They’ll agree a temporary roll-over to give “more time”. They’ll have to do this because neither side will be ready to trade on WTO terms. They won’t have the infrastructure in place and the various handshakes and agreements needed to trade on WTO terms, won’t have been activated. There’s lots of fear mongering going on that says, the EU will just say “too bad” and block trade, ground flights etc — it can’t and won’t.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on March 03, 2018, 17:38:09 pm
What do you call Brexit with no exit?

BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr BrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrB rBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBrBr
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on March 03, 2018, 17:39:31 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40eN5NqKUFA
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 03, 2018, 17:49:17 pm
Is the proverbial penny starting to Drop.  : :
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 03, 2018, 18:34:11 pm
Is the proverbial penny starting to Drop.  : :

doing the dumbest thing to make it easier for you ?

*protrudes tongue in front of inside lower lip*
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on March 04, 2018, 08:47:57 am
Been laid low by a nasty bug and at least I missed the worst effects of the snow..So catching up..Well have a look at this sky news article regarding the Italian General Election being held today. Please read it through because there are some pertinent facts especially relating to the scandalous unemployment rates of the under 25`s. If the EU thought it was them against the UK, they really need a reality check.

   Apparantly the name Salvini, if he makes it to the top table will make Brussels more fearful of Rome than London. Some very serious anti Euro/EU/immigration candidates in that mix and they arn`t all going to lose..Who said politics is dull  ;D

https://news.sky.com/story/italian-election-voters-go-to-the-polls-11275468

Best weekend wishes to all
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 09:14:06 am
looks like junker has just pitched the second public fight he's going to lose but this time with the USA.

imagine if trump puts 25% on top of EU made cars ? that would be amazing for our car manufacturing industry and a absolute nightmare for the germans who run the EU, and one thing is for sure, Junker cant tell the germans what to do, they are his boss so this will be a very public backdown from junker, just like brexit was.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 04, 2018, 09:51:53 am
https://www.farminguk.com/News/EU-trade-offer-to-South-America-completely-unacceptable-for-UK-beef-farmers_48526.html

This will be the meat we can buy here and served in all the Restaurants. Uruguayan Fillet steak at 16 Euro a kilo in Mercadona. In UK fillet steak is £36 a kilo.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 10:09:21 am
https://www.farminguk.com/News/EU-trade-offer-to-South-America-completely-unacceptable-for-UK-beef-farmers_48526.html

This will be the meat we can buy here and served in all the Restaurants. Uruguayan Fillet steak at 16 Euro a kilo in Mercadona. In UK fillet steak is £36 a kilo.

yeah but if you cant tell the difference between the beef and chicken on the island compared to the nice stuff back home your opinion doesnt matter ;)

out of interest have you noticed how much firmer and tougher the chicken is on fuerte ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 10:20:33 am
https://www.farminguk.com/News/EU-trade-offer-to-South-America-completely-unacceptable-for-UK-beef-farmers_48526.html

This will be the meat we can buy here and served in all the Restaurants. Uruguayan Fillet steak at 16 Euro a kilo in Mercadona. In UK fillet steak is £36 a kilo.

yeah but if you cant tell the difference between the beef and chicken on the island compared to the nice stuff back home your opinion doesnt matter ;)

out of interest have you noticed how much firmer and tougher the chicken is on fuerte ?


That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 10:49:09 am

That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.

unlike you, im not racist but I just checked and its Hereford Beef im talking about, apparently wagyu beef from japan is the best though, I dont care where it comes from as long as its nice, hard to find the real stuff on fuerte even in the really expesive places
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 10:52:05 am
looks like junker has just pitched the second public fight he's going to lose but this time with the USA.

imagine if trump puts 25% on top of EU made cars ? that would be amazing for our car manufacturing industry and a absolute nightmare for the germans who run the EU, and one thing is for sure, Junker cant tell the germans what to do, they are his boss so this will be a very public backdown from junker, just like brexit was.
And just what cars that aren’t of EU origin do you assemble in the Uk.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 11:00:22 am

That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.

unlike you, im not racist but I just checked and its Hereford Beef im talking about, apparently wagyu beef from japan is the best though, I dont care where it comes from as long as its nice, hard to find the real stuff on fuerte even in the really expesive places

That’s the breed of animal you clown
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 11:03:06 am
 

That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.
[/quote]

Very difficult to tell the difference between UK sourced and Irish meat as they are both grown in similar climatic conditions etc. Personally I prefer locally produced as close to where I live for a number of factors including taste.

However I would have thought maybe you might want to consider for selfish reasons that its important you consider the impact of Irish meat sales if there is not an agreement with your biggest market for meat. After all New Zealand isn`t too bad at meat and with lower tariffs than EU meat I`m sure a large proportion of UK consumers would be quite happy to switch to their quality meat at a cheaper price.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 11:05:10 am

And just what cars that aren’t of EU origin do you assemble in the Uk.

Areil ?

you short arsed dumb racist.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 11:07:51 am
wagyu beef from japan

That’s the breed of animal you clown

geez really dumb this one, are you still drunk and stupid as your stereo type would suggest or just stupid as proven above ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 11:11:16 am


That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.

Very difficult to tell the difference between UK sourced and Irish meat as they are both grown in similar climatic conditions etc. Personally I prefer locally produced as close to where I live for a number of factors including taste.

However I would have thought maybe you might want to consider for selfish reasons that its important you consider the impact of Irish meat sales if there is not an agreement with your biggest market for meat. After all New Zealand isn`t too bad at meat and with lower tariffs than EU meat I`m sure a large proportion of UK consumers would be quite happy to switch to their quality meat at a cheaper price.
[/quote]
Usually the label a dead give away.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 11:13:26 am

And just what cars that aren’t of EU origin do you assemble in the Uk.
[/quote]

Made in Britain
MINI – MINI, MINI Clubman and MINI Countryman, in Cowley, Oxford
Honda – Civic and CR-V in Swindon
Toyota – Auris, Auris hybrid and Avensis in Burnaston, Derbyshire
Nissan – Juke, Qashqai, Note and Leaf and Infiniti Q30 in Sunderland, Tyne and Wear
Lotus – Elise, Evora and Exige in Norfolk
Aston Martin – DB9, Vantage, Rapide, Vanquish, and DB11 in Gaydon, Warwickshire
Bentley Motors – Continental, Flying Spur and Mulsanne in Crewe, Cheshire
Rolls Royce – Ghost and Wraith in Goodwood, West Sussex
Jaguar – F-Pace and XE in Solihull, and F-type, XJ, XF and XE in Castle Bromwich, Birmingham
Land Rover – Discovery Sport and Range Rover Evoque in Halewood, Merseyside, and Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Land Rover Defender in Solihull, West Midlands
Vauxhall – Astra at Ellesmere Port and Vivaro van in Luton

Other niche, small volume manufacturers include Westfield, Bristol, Ariel and Noble.


Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 11:21:54 am

Usually the label a dead give away.

OR the farm down the road, in herefordshire.

small man syndrome on you is epic, id love to be as small as you just to see why the chip on the shoulder ;)

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 11:25:51 am
This may refresh your memory Viva

The automotive industry in the United Kingdom is now best known for premium and sports car marques including Aston Martin, Bentley, Caterham Cars, Daimler, Jaguar, Lagonda, Land Rover, Lister Cars, Lotus, McLaren, MG, Mini, Morgan and Rolls-Royce. Volume car manufacturers with a major presence in the UK include Honda, Nissan, Toyota and Vauxhall Motors (subsidiary of Adam Opel AG, subsidiary of the French automotive company Groupe PSA).[1] Commercial vehicle manufacturers active in the UK include Alexander Dennis, Ford, GMM Luton (owned by Adam Opel AG), Leyland Trucks (owned by Paccar) and London Taxis International (owned by Geely).[1]

In 2008 the UK automotive manufacturing sector had a turnover of £52.5 billion, generated £26.6 billion of exports and produced around 1.45 million passenger vehicles and 203,000 commercial vehicles.[1] In that year around 180,000 people were directly employed in automotive manufacturing in the UK, with a further 640,000 people employed in automotive supply, retail and servicing.[1] This declined to 147,000 including supply industry in 2014 (-18%)[2] The UK is a major centre for engine manufacturing and in 2008 around 3.16 million engines were produced in the country.[1] The UK has a significant presence in auto racing and the UK motorsport industry currently employs around 38,500 people, comprises around 4,500 companies and has an annual turnover of around £6 billion.[3]

The origins of the UK automotive industry date back to the final years of the 19th century. By the 1950s the UK was the second-largest manufacturer of cars in the world (after the United States) and the largest exporter.[4] However, in subsequent decades the industry experienced considerably lower growth than competitor nations such as France, Germany and Japan and by 2008 the UK was the 12th-largest producer of cars measured by volume.[4] Since the early 1990s many British car marques have been acquired by foreign companies including BMW (Mini and Rolls-Royce), SAIC (MG), TATA (Jaguar and Land Rover) and Volkswagen Group (Bentley). Rights to many currently dormant marques, including Austin, Riley, Rover and Triumph, are also owned by foreign companies.

Famous and iconic British cars include the Aston Martin DB5, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, Bentley 4½ Litre, Jaguar E-Type, Land Rover Defender, Lotus Esprit, McLaren F1, MGB, original two-door Mini, Range Rover, Rolls-Royce Phantom III and Rover P5.[5][6][7][8][9] Notable British car designers include David Bache, Laurence Pomeroy, John Polwhele Blatchley, Ian Callum, Colin Chapman, Alec Issigonis, Charles Spencer King and Gordon Murray.[10]

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 11:28:41 am

Usually the label a dead give away.

OR the farm down the road, in herefordshire.

small man syndrome on you is epic, id love to be as small as you just to see why the ship on the shoulder ;)


I’m some man for one man because in your own words I carry a ship 🚢 on my shoulders.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 11:30:46 am
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( IM GOING TO BE SO POOR WHEN THE BRITS STOP PAYING FOR OUR ENTRY INTO THE EU  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


read what he said, european cars made in US are OK, european owned cars not made in EU are OK

cry more you little fart
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 11:32:32 am
but you see daggers, we paid for your prosperity, we dug you out the proverbial when needed but all this is forgotton that you wouldnt really be anything without our help and thats water of a ducks back to you, same with rest of europe thats why we got out, its biased against us even though we where one of the greatest contributors to the EU
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 11:36:08 am

And just what cars that aren’t of EU origin do you assemble in the Uk.

Made in Britain
MINI – MINI, MINI Clubman and MINI Countryman, in Cowley, Oxford
Honda – Civic and CR-V in Swindon
Toyota – Auris, Auris hybrid and Avensis in Burnaston, Derbyshire
Nissan – Juke, Qashqai, Note and Leaf and Infiniti Q30 in Sunderland, Tyne and Wear
Lotus – Elise, Evora and Exige in Norfolk
Aston Martin – DB9, Vantage, Rapide, Vanquish, and DB11 in Gaydon, Warwickshire
Bentley Motors – Continental, Flying Spur and Mulsanne in Crewe, Cheshire
Rolls Royce – Ghost and Wraith in Goodwood, West Sussex
Jaguar – F-Pace and XE in Solihull, and F-type, XJ, XF and XE in Castle Bromwich, Birmingham
Land Rover – Discovery Sport and Range Rover Evoque in Halewood, Merseyside, and Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Land Rover Defender in Solihull, West Midlands
Vauxhall – Astra at Ellesmere Port and Vivaro van in Luton

Other niche, small volume manufacturers include Westfield, Bristol, Ariel and Noble.
[/quote]

I believe assembled in the UK and with the exception of the bespoke makers that’s last on the list all EU or Japanese owned and a high proportion sold in other EU country’s. You have just  confirmed one of the best reasons staying in the customs union.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 04, 2018, 11:44:49 am

That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.

unlike you, im not racist but I just checked and its Hereford Beef im talking about, apparently wagyu beef from japan is the best though, I dont care where it comes from as long as its nice, hard to find the real stuff on fuerte even in the really expesive places

That’s the breed of animal you clown
 

Not true

Wagyu translates as Japanese cow, and the Japanese use four different breeds to produce it, it is also bred all over the world and has been interbred with Aberdeen Angus to name but one, before you start calling people "A clown" you should make sure you are not making a clown of yourself with incorrect facts.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 12:02:59 pm

That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.

unlike you, im not racist but I just checked and its Hereford Beef im talking about, apparently wagyu beef from japan is the best though, I dont care where it comes from as long as its nice, hard to find the real stuff on fuerte even in the really expesive places

That’s the breed of animal you clown
 

Not true

Wagyu translates as Japanese cow, and the Japanese use four different breeds to produce it, it is also bred all over the world and has been interbred with Aberdeen Angus to name but one, before you start calling people "A clown" you should make sure you are not making a clown of yourself with incorrect facts.


Another one that can’t / won’t read. 
It says its hereford? Beef its talking about. See above. So as usual you have it ass ways.
Looks like you have all been in the shower singing “ I don’t give a F##k if I do go blind do da” since the Brexit penny dropped.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 12:05:20 pm
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( IM GOING TO BE SOO POOR WHEN UK STOP PAYING FOR ME TI LIVE  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

you simply do not understand the subject and it was never your choice neither did we ask for any advice, now if I was you id go worry about how your guys will be putting food on their plate if we aint paying for it anymore.

get yer hand out
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 12:13:20 pm
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( IM GOING TO BE SOO POOR WHEN UK STOP PAYING FOR ME TI LIVE  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

you simply do not understand the subject and it was never your choice neither did we ask for any advice, now if I was you id go worry about how your guys will be putting food on their plate if we aint paying for it anymore.

get yer hand out

Go ask your daddy to explain the birds and bees to you.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 12:25:04 pm
Go ask your daddy to explain the birds and bees to you.

go and ask yer daddy to give you a few hundred K as we are no longer giving it to you ;)

have some respect you horrible little hate dwarf
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 13:14:38 pm

Usually the label a dead give away.
[/quote]

Geez if I give too much detail you lot don`t like it, so I try to keep things succinct. I was referring to the taste.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 13:45:41 pm
I believe assembled in the UK and with the exception of the bespoke makers that’s last on the list all EU or Japanese owned and a high proportion sold in other EU country’s. You have just  confirmed one of the best reasons staying in the customs union.
[/quote]

Every car manufacturer throughout the world assembles cars from parts all over the world. All the cars on the list use parts mostly from the UK.

An arrangement where Britain gives up full access to the single market and customs union could threaten as many as 14,000 jobs at automotive suppliers in Germany and shrink their sales by 3.8 billion euros (£3.36 billion).

Germany is the largest exporter of car parts to the UK.

Some 42,500 jobs in Germany depend on suppliers’ ties with Britain and German parts makers generated 16.9 billion euros in sales in 2016 from UK car production, a study by global accounting firm Deloitte.

When reality sinks in on the impact on unemployment and problems to Germany the main movers in the EU then pragmatism will sink in and fudges will be made.

Problem is dagwood you are so myopic you only see the problems on one side.

We are not leaving an evil empire. We are leaving a political organisation that's ill suited to our character as a nation. Unwinding the relationship and building a new one is painful and traumatic but both parties can be better off in the long run. If this was the sentiment behind the negotiations, we'd be in a better place. Unfortunately, other factors are in play. These set the tone, character and content of the whole affair.

To understand the differences in approach, one must understand the differences in the nature of the objectives. Not just the objectives themselves, but their nature and complexity.

The UK’s objectives are quite simple. We are leaving, totally leaving (not half in half out), and it is better to have a good relationship than a bad one.

The EU’s objectives are far more complex and have more tradeoffs. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 14:01:59 pm
So in your opinion the European car companies won’t pack up and assemble the majority of their products somewhere else while keeping a small presence in the UK to give them free access to the UK market and avoid all duties etc.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 04, 2018, 16:25:46 pm
Been laid low by a nasty bug and at least I missed the worst effects of the snow..So catching up..Well have a look at this sky news article regarding the Italian General Election being held today. Please read it through because there are some pertinent facts especially relating to the scandalous unemployment rates of the under 25`s. If the EU thought it was them against the UK, they really need a reality check.

   Apparantly the name Salvini, if he makes it to the top table will make Brussels more fearful of Rome than London. Some very serious anti Euro/EU/immigration candidates in that mix and they arn`t all going to lose..Who said politics is dull  ;D

https://news.sky.com/story/italian-election-voters-go-to-the-polls-11275468

Best weekend wishes to all

The Italians probably won't be the last to take on Brussels. I'm quite looking forward to the reaction of all the other member states who will have to fill the financial gap created by our withdrawal. The receivers may have to become doners and that's going to be interesting to witness.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 16:25:51 pm
So in your opinion the European car companies won’t pack up and assemble the majority of their products somewhere else while keeping a small presence in the UK to give them free access to the UK market and avoid all duties etc.

the EU is ruined mate, hurry up and get out!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 16:54:12 pm
So in your opinion the European car companies won’t pack up and assemble the majority of their products somewhere else while keeping a small presence in the UK to give them free access to the UK market and avoid all duties etc.

Well perhaps if the US imposes tariffs on EU cars, the EU companies will flock to the UK, that`s as ridiculous as the statement that the UK manufacturers  will pack up and go to europe.

You keep on telling us about how the pound is going down if Brexit happens.If that scenario did happen this will wipe out any tariff increase on British products going into the EU and will put EU cars up while the tariff on Japanese and Korean cars will come down. Result we sell more to the EU and the pound strengthens.

If you looked at both sides you will see the advantages and disadvantages on both sides.



Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 17:04:27 pm
dagwood is funny, he HATES the brits but now we are no longer propping up his nations economies finances he wants us back.

pathetic mate, time for ireland to grow up and show us the only reason your not bancrupt is becuase we where bailing you out.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 17:04:45 pm
I would think that when The Donald discovers that the EU is potentially a massive market for US goods and also very important for security reasons this bird won’t fly.
Of course he may not be around when this whole thing gets fully sorted.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: erik_tonny on March 04, 2018, 17:08:04 pm
Do they do Brexit-proof-tattoo's yet?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 17:16:46 pm
dagwood is funny, he HATES the brits but now we are no longer propping up his nations economies finances he wants us back.

pathetic mate, time for ireland to grow up and show us the only reason your not bancrupt is becuase we where bailing you out.

He never got back to me on my solution to the Irish border question which he and the EU are using for their own purpose but here is another solution.

It’s not the UK that will be imposing a hard border it will be the EU. The UK has already stated that it wants an arrangement where the Republic and the North continue as they are at the moment.

From a purely layman’s point of view the most sensible resolution would seem to be a carnet system as we had before Maastritch. Under this the Republic would be responsible for customs duties (not duty) on goods travelling to the North as they enter the Republic. Having completed the carnet and sealed the containers the goods are sent to a customs clearance depot in the North who then check the carnet against the goods imported and allow it’s onward transmission.

Any number of solutions are available if both sides want to come to a sensible solution, but the EU has a different agenda, due to the objectives they have to satisfy.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 17:21:39 pm
He never got back to me on my solution to the Irish border question which he and the EU are using for their own purpose but here is another solution.


once you realise he's just a old drunk idiot who has far to much time on his hands and HAS to reply to SOMETHING (mostly irrelevant) you will then understand he's hated by most on here, if there was a real admin he'd be banned and his only interaction with fuerte would be his studio apprtment in caleta he paid 13k (euro) for about 4 years ago.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 04, 2018, 17:28:30 pm
once you realise he's just a old drunk idiot who has far to much time on his hands and HAS to reply to SOMETHING (mostly irrelevant) you will then understand he's hated by most on here, if there was a real admin he'd be banned and his only interaction with fuerte would be his studio apprtment in caleta he paid 13k (euro) for about 4 years ago.
[/quote]

Well maybe when he sobers up pops along to spec savers (or any other optician in Caleta) , knocks that chip off his shoulder, he will realise you need to put the past behind you as you can`t change it but we can change the future.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 17:41:38 pm
dagwood is funny, he HATES the brits but now we are no longer propping up his nations economies finances he wants us back.

pathetic mate, time for ireland to grow up and show us the only reason your not bancrupt is becuase we where bailing you out.

He never got back to me on my solution to the Irish border question which he and the EU are using for their own purpose but here is another solution.

It’s not the UK that will be imposing a hard border it will be the EU. The UK has already stated that it wants an arrangement where the Republic and the North continue as they are at the moment.

From a purely layman’s point of view the most sensible resolution would seem to be a carnet system as we had before Maastritch. Under this the Republic would be responsible for customs duties (not duty) on goods travelling to the North as they enter the Republic. Having completed the carnet and sealed the containers the goods are sent to a customs clearance depot in the North who then check the carnet against the goods imported and allow it’s onward transmission.

Any number of solutions are available if both sides want to come to a sensible solution, but the EU has a different agenda, due to the objectives they have to satisfy.
.

Totally and completely unworkable, one reason is only large manufacturers only could afford this kind of arrangement. Your idea would just shift the border to UK & EU ports and airports. Or have a custom presences at both sides in every factory big or small.
It would also leave the 315 odd mile of land border wide open for illegal activity.
Of course Bonkin Borris thinks London is cris crossed with borders. 
Also goods are not the only items that cross borders.
You should share your ideas with Mrs May she may find them useful.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 04, 2018, 17:50:27 pm
Ireland is not a major issue. It is a sideshow to the main event. As has been stated a reasonable compromise could be reached quite easily, and it will be...eventually. Although perhaps after much demanding and posturing  by EU negotiators. It is just one of a number of side issues blown up out of proportion and portrayed as deal breakers by the remainer's in order to try and cause havoc and disunity. It's a great shame for us the EU has these unpatriotic quislings backing them up and trying to stab May in the back. It really is shameful.

By them I mean the British establishment elite and certain politicians. Not dagwood. He never had a vote and most of his stuff is biased irrelevance..So can quite easily be discounted.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 17:56:24 pm
once you realise he's just a old drunk idiot who has far to much time on his hands and HAS to reply to SOMETHING (mostly irrelevant) you will then understand he's hated by most on here, if there was a real admin he'd be banned and his only interaction with fuerte would be his studio apprtment in caleta he paid 13k (euro) for about 4 years ago.

Well maybe when he sobers up pops along to spec savers (or any other optician in Caleta) , knocks that chip off his shoulder, he will realise you need to put the past behind you as you can`t change it but we can change the future.
[/quote]
So beachlife I’m slightly surprised to discover when you cannot make any workable argument, you in a long winded way morph into a scum bag like Viva.
And two things for the record. I don’t have an €15k apartment in Caleta and I don’t  drink except for the odd glass of wine with a meal.
The great master plan to leave the EU is not as clear cut as you lot once thought it might. Not thought out and not explained to the electorate. And you have nothing to bargain with. As I said before a busted flush.
Oh by the way I know your leaving and that’s it. You won’t be missed.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 17:56:52 pm
Ireland is not a major issue.

its only a issue to the irish, and dogwood is only mentioning it as he will have to sell up to be able to plug in the gap in finances we pay for currently.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 17:58:33 pm
Ireland is not a major issue. It is a sideshow to the main event. As has been stated a reasonable compromise could be reached quite easily, and it will be...eventually. Although perhaps after much demanding and posturing  by EU negotiators. It is just one of a number of side issues blown up out of proportion and portrayed as deal breakers by the remainer's in order to try and cause havoc and disunity. It's a great shame for us the EU has these unpatriotic quislings backing them up and trying to stab May in the back. It really is shameful.

By them I mean the British establishment elite and certain politicians. Not dagwood. He never had a vote and most of his stuff is biased irrelevance..So can quite easily be discounted.

Havoc and disunity yes just look at the Uk government.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 04, 2018, 18:07:08 pm
Only disunity is the Tory party back stabbers who don't seem to care if JC runs the country.

Anyway what do you care, you know we are leaving and you won't miss us. ....apparently. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 18:13:38 pm
Only disunity is the Tory party back stabbers who don't seem to care if JC runs the country.

Anyway what do you care, you know we are leaving and you won't miss us. ....apparently. ;)

Bonkin Borris is a past master at causing Havoc 
It’s a spectator sport for me that’s my interest.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 04, 2018, 18:21:28 pm
Then sit back and enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 04, 2018, 18:23:58 pm
Then sit back and enjoy the ride.

I’ll leave that to Boris 😜
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 04, 2018, 20:00:50 pm
Then sit back and enjoy the ride.

I’ll leave that to Boris 😜

you still crying you big girl ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 05, 2018, 07:10:40 am

That’s probably because its Irish beef the best in the world your eating in the UK.

unlike you, im not racist but I just checked and its Hereford Beef im talking about, apparently wagyu beef from japan is the best though, I dont care where it comes from as long as its nice, hard to find the real stuff on fuerte even in the really expesive places

I think you need to get your taste buds serviced. Check out 1000s of comments on Trip Adviser about the quality of the South American meat served in the Caleta resturants. 
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 05, 2018, 09:04:41 am
If price is your big concern keep off the beef and eat the local goat meat. Brexit shouldn't affect your dining then. One less problem to moan about.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: paully on March 05, 2018, 11:11:27 am
Have you all seen the result of the Italian elections?..If not you should. Italy and its busted flush economy has long occupied the minds of the EU ers..almost as much as Brexit. It just hasn`t been talked about.The reason being, that even they admit the Italian economy is too big to rescue. That`s why they have manipulated Italian politics for so long, even imposing their own `Technocrat` PM on the people.

  Yesterday was a democratic decision they couldn`t manipulate. Their people, like ours, had their say and there was a clear majority for parties expressing anti EU and Euro views. Just like here. Thats one of the reasons the Lib Dems were wiped out at the last Euro Parliament elections.

   Its not just the British, these views are rather widespread at ground level in Europe Seems immigration, or the uncontrolled version, favoured by Merkel et al has been another factor in this equation. These kind of results will embolden ordinary people, those without vested interests or wind up merchants, to express their views through their respective ballot boxes.

   That, my friends, is the kind of democracy the EU elite fear. Simply because they cannot control it, which will always be the biggest threat to their dream of `The Project`.

   

   
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 05, 2018, 13:07:04 pm
Be interesting to see the BBC news tonight. They will find it hard to fudge this one. Might take some time but there may not be much of an EU for us to leave. If we  hang in there our bargaining powers look to get better by the day. How that must ranckle with some. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: perrypower1 on March 05, 2018, 13:40:42 pm
I'm not much interested in the Italian election.  Italy will never leave the EU no matter what coalition is formed, but it does not matter anyway.

Instead I like to concentrate on how Brexit or BrBrBrBr as I now call it is going.  For example:
Our aviation industry is the 2nd biggest in the World (albeit mostly foreign-owned), worth £55bn pa and income tax+NI from 250,000 directly/indirectly employed. TM realises we need an opt-in to remain members of EASA. But we will only get associate status, like Turkey, pay in, still subject to ECJ, no vote. Taking back control by going from leading rule-makers to rule-takers.

Boy, we really know how to take back control!  And some loonies on this forum think people are traitors if they do not back our negotiators.  Obviously those who support this sort of thing are the traitors to the UK.  But heyho, if a few coffin dodgers are happy I guess the rest of us had better learn to say nothing or we will have the wrath of  Churchill upon us.

Oh wait, he's dead.
Oh wait he was in favour of the United States of Europe.
Oh wait, the movie about him was mostly fiction, he never went and talked to people in the underground.
Oh wait the British actor who plays him and won an Oscar lives in the US and paid tribute to his new home as part of his acceptance speech.  He has lived in the USA longer than he lived in UK
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 18, 2018, 18:52:13 pm
I'm not much interested in the Italian election.  Italy will never leave the EU no matter what coalition is formed, but it does not matter anyway.

Instead I like to concentrate on how Brexit or BrBrBrBr as I now call it is going.  For example:
Our aviation industry is the 2nd biggest in the World (albeit mostly foreign-owned), worth £55bn pa and income tax+NI from 250,000 directly/indirectly employed. TM realises we need an opt-in to remain members of EASA. But we will only get associate status, like Turkey, pay in, still subject to ECJ, no vote. Taking back control by going from leading rule-makers to rule-takers.

Boy, we really know how to take back control!  And some loonies on this forum think people are traitors if they do not back our negotiators.  Obviously those who support this sort of thing are the traitors to the UK.  But heyho, if a few coffin dodgers are happy I guess the rest of us had better learn to say nothing or we will have the wrath of  Churchill upon us.

Oh wait, he's dead.
Oh wait he was in favour of the United States of Europe.
Oh wait, the movie about him was mostly fiction, he never went and talked to people in the underground.
Oh wait the British actor who plays him and won an Oscar lives in the US and paid tribute to his new home as part of his acceptance speech.  He has lived in the USA longer than he lived in UK
I don’t think it’s 120days. Fake news
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 18, 2018, 18:54:38 pm
Found it lads away we go again. As the other Mr Jones would say “they don’t like it up em”
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 18, 2018, 20:30:35 pm
I'm Irish and dont want UK to leave EU ! *CRYING*

edited for accuracy
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 18, 2018, 20:31:09 pm
Now that we have all the silverware home in Ireland which is and will be part of the EU and in spite of old Lord Crotchbottom I think we should re visit this very important discussion. 
Of course if one disagrees with old Crotchbottom he will insult and belittle each and every one of them. That’s the duck in thunder mentality of the pro Brexit brigade.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 18, 2018, 20:40:09 pm
I'm Irish and dont want UK to leave EU ! *CRYING*

edited for accuracy


Hi Viva caught any Russians on your travels.
And I thought they were going to buy some of the rubbish you produce. You may well need a new customer.
Sorry you don’t work weekends.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 18, 2018, 20:48:51 pm
I'm Irish and dont want UK to leave EU ! *CRYING*

lets be honest with each other here ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 18, 2018, 20:52:25 pm
I'm Irish and dont want UK to leave EU ! *CRYIN
I am ?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 18, 2018, 21:26:04 pm
I dont really know what im doing

we know
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 19, 2018, 00:16:09 am
One big happy family

Brexit Committee chairman denies trying to keep Britain in the EU
18/03/2018 - 01:39

The chairman of a committee at war over Brexit has denied trying to use it to keep Britain in the European Union indefinitely.

Bitter divisions erupted after Leave supporters refused to back a report recommending extending the transition period and the exit date if necessary.

Tory and DUP MPs forced the Exiting the EU Committee to publish rival recommendations within the official text that was backed by the majority of members.

Prominent Conservative Jacob Rees-Mogg attacked the "high priests of Remain" for pushing through a "partisan" report.

But Labour committee chairman Hilary Benn, a Remain supporter, denied trying to delay Brexit indefinitely.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 19, 2018, 00:31:22 am
I really hope UK doesnt go ahead wth brexit,I understand It was nothing to do with me but I am afraid of the outcome like many other EU states, i really need you UK guys and gals to help me out here, im having a tough time coming to terms with all this reality stuff

we know
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 19, 2018, 01:14:28 am
Thanks Viva for helping me get this subject up and running again.
As there is no thanks button I have to post it.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 22, 2018, 09:18:43 am
Looks like the Fishing community is going to be shafted.

Lean times ahead for cod 'n chips lovers. It will all be heading to France.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 22, 2018, 14:41:11 pm
So many promises made for Brexit, that were never going to be delivered on! Reality check time for those who thought this would be a straightforward process. Wasn’t impressed with way EU was run, but then seems we can’t govern ourselves any better. Lies coming back to put our people on the dole, nobody voted for that ☹️
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 22, 2018, 14:54:56 pm
Always knew that May would sacrifice someone at the altar of EU dominance. Should have walked away without bothering to try get a deal and let them chase us. They would have, it just needed some courage and determination in the face of EU pressure.... a bit more than May possesses sadly.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 22, 2018, 15:08:38 pm
Walk away? Really? It was always going to end like this, a series of compromises and climb downs and a growing realisation that we are going to have pay a very heavy price for our ‘freedom’. If only people knew then what we know now, result would have been very different, still, need to make the best and secure best deal we can and try not to loose too many jobs
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 22, 2018, 15:33:59 pm
Yes really. I always did know then what I know now. Always knew that looking for a deal would always mean compromise and climb downs. Always knew too that no UK government would walk away and particularly that Mays no deal is better than a bad deal was all bluff. Not sure where you get your information on job losses but I've heard things differently. Difference between the Guardian and Express maybe?.

I would still vote to leave whatever the cost as in the long run the UK will benefit as will it's citizens..
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 22, 2018, 17:19:36 pm
Very decent I’vemovedalong of your French neighbors to undertake the printing of the new Blue passports.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 22, 2018, 17:49:41 pm
An article in todays FT

 
   Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
   https://www.ft.com/content/a3111968-2cf4-11e8-9b4b-bc4b9f08f381

   Xavier Bettel has given us a wounding description of Brexit. As an EU member, the Luxembourg prime minister observed, Britain was forever asking for opt-outs. “Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”

There you have it. Mr Bettel captures precisely the abiding sense of superiority that persuades Britain it can stand above the rest of Europe alongside its recurring fear of being left behind.

Boris Johnson speaks of Brexit as a “liberation”. The foreign secretary is among those English nationalists who never step out of the nostalgic haze of victory in the second world war. Others were subjugated; Britain stood alone. Yet there Mr Johnson was in Brussels this week tipping his hat to the “defeated” in the hope of enlisting their support against Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Technically, Britain is not yet “out” of the EU, but the conclusion of a draft transition agreement with the remaining 27 members would take Theresa May’s government a stride closer to the exit. The prime minister is determined to walk through it in March 2019. Just to be sure, she has a fail-safe approach: to take just about any deal she is offered.

The story of the first phase of Article 50 negotiations was a procession of capitulations. British demands collided with European realities and Mrs May retreated at every turn. The second phase will be much the same except that, as the clock ticks faster, she will be even quicker to abandon her positions.

Only this month the prime minister set out at great length the opt-ins, concessions and exemptions she required of the EU27 in the post-Brexit world. Never mind. These “cake-and-eat” demands — segmenting the single market, privileged access for the City of London and bespoke customs arrangements — were made in the sure knowledge they will soon enough have to be abandoned.

Michel Barnier, the head of the commission’s negotiating team, has quite sensibly rested his position on the logic of Mrs May’s rejection of the single market and customs union and her refusal to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That leaves the only plausible trade arrangement as one akin to those enjoyed by Canada and South Korea. If Britain is willing to pay, it may also secure associate membership of a handful of EU agencies.

By the government’s own lights, this outcome falls far short of the national interest. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has demanded an accord covering financial services. Mrs May has other priorities. Politics must trump economics, and the interests of the Conservative party those of the nation. Supply chains, investment and jobs cannot be allowed to get in the way of her efforts to avoid a Tory rupture.

The timetable has room for only six months more of talks. Everything has to be wrapped up by November to allow time for ratification. The best that can be achieved in such a short period is a statement of a set of broad principles to shape the future relationship. Hammering out a workable economic arrangement will be left for the transition, which in turn will need to be extended.

For Mrs May, the vaguer the autumn accord the better. A fuzzy statement of intent will be sold as all things to all sides — to her party’s nationalists as a clean break with the wicked EU, and to pro-European Tories as the precursor to a close and strong relationship. Anything too specific and Mrs May would risk stirring rebellion in parliament.

Things could still go wrong. MPs could vote to stay in a customs union. The government’s reckless indifference to the impact of Brexit on the Northern Ireland peace settlement faces exposure. A draft agreement with the EU27 includes a commitment to avoid a hard border between the North and the Irish Republic. Mrs May has yet to say how this can be reconciled with a departure from the single market and customs union.

For hardline Brexiters, none of this matters. Mr Johnson dismisses the Irish border as akin to the boundary between two London boroughs. The likes of Mr Johnson hold the Brexit prize too important to be held hostage to peace and prosperity across the Irish Sea. They have their sights set on the supposed restoration of national sovereignty.

There is a snag. More, really, than a snag. The repatriation of sovereignty is in large measure a chimera. As Mr Putin has reminded us, Britain cannot banish the facts of interdependence. In any event, in order to reclaim this claimed sovereignty, the Brexiters must suppress the will of, well, the parliament they promise to empower. Most MPs, including those on the Tory side, think Brexit will be bad for Britain. So, incidentally, do a majority of cabinet ministers. At the very least they want to soften the blow. But they are told by the prime minister they must vote for the good of party before country.

Perhaps there is a precedent. I cannot recall it. When last did Britain’s elected representatives take a decision that they fully expected would make the nation poorer, less influential and less secure? The cynicism takes one’s breath away.

There is an answer. A prime minister of principle would offer a free vote. Parliament should be charged with mapping the contours of Britain’s future relationship with its own continent. MPs should also be empowered to put the terms to the people in a second referendum. That really would be taking back control. Strange that the self-appointed champions of parliamentary sovereignty argue otherwise.

philip.stephens@ft.com
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 22, 2018, 17:53:47 pm
Very decent I’vemovedalong of your French neighbors to undertake the printing of the new Blue passports.

EU regulations of non bias to a UK company I'm afraid. And 50 million cheaper by all accounts.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 22, 2018, 22:38:49 pm
the only people still crying about brexit didnt get a vote.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: beachlife on March 23, 2018, 10:31:41 am
An article in todays FT

 
   Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
   https://www.ft.com/content/a3111968-2cf4-11e8-9b4b-bc4b9f08f381

   Xavier Bettel has given us a wounding description of Brexit. As an EU member, the Luxembourg prime minister observed, Britain was forever asking for opt-outs. “Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”

There you have it. Mr Bettel captures precisely the abiding sense of superiority that persuades Britain it can stand above the rest of Europe alongside its recurring fear of being left behind.

Boris Johnson speaks of Brexit as a “liberation”. The foreign secretary is among those English nationalists who never step out of the nostalgic haze of victory in the second world war. Others were subjugated; Britain stood alone. Yet there Mr Johnson was in Brussels this week tipping his hat to the “defeated” in the hope of enlisting their support against Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Technically, Britain is not yet “out” of the EU, but the conclusion of a draft transition agreement with the remaining 27 members would take Theresa May’s government a stride closer to the exit. The prime minister is determined to walk through it in March 2019. Just to be sure, she has a fail-safe approach: to take just about any deal she is offered.

The story of the first phase of Article 50 negotiations was a procession of capitulations. British demands collided with European realities and Mrs May retreated at every turn. The second phase will be much the same except that, as the clock ticks faster, she will be even quicker to abandon her positions.

Only this month the prime minister set out at great length the opt-ins, concessions and exemptions she required of the EU27 in the post-Brexit world. Never mind. These “cake-and-eat” demands — segmenting the single market, privileged access for the City of London and bespoke customs arrangements — were made in the sure knowledge they will soon enough have to be abandoned.

Michel Barnier, the head of the commission’s negotiating team, has quite sensibly rested his position on the logic of Mrs May’s rejection of the single market and customs union and her refusal to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That leaves the only plausible trade arrangement as one akin to those enjoyed by Canada and South Korea. If Britain is willing to pay, it may also secure associate membership of a handful of EU agencies.

By the government’s own lights, this outcome falls far short of the national interest. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has demanded an accord covering financial services. Mrs May has other priorities. Politics must trump economics, and the interests of the Conservative party those of the nation. Supply chains, investment and jobs cannot be allowed to get in the way of her efforts to avoid a Tory rupture.

The timetable has room for only six months more of talks. Everything has to be wrapped up by November to allow time for ratification. The best that can be achieved in such a short period is a statement of a set of broad principles to shape the future relationship. Hammering out a workable economic arrangement will be left for the transition, which in turn will need to be extended.

For Mrs May, the vaguer the autumn accord the better. A fuzzy statement of intent will be sold as all things to all sides — to her party’s nationalists as a clean break with the wicked EU, and to pro-European Tories as the precursor to a close and strong relationship. Anything too specific and Mrs May would risk stirring rebellion in parliament.

Things could still go wrong. MPs could vote to stay in a customs union. The government’s reckless indifference to the impact of Brexit on the Northern Ireland peace settlement faces exposure. A draft agreement with the EU27 includes a commitment to avoid a hard border between the North and the Irish Republic. Mrs May has yet to say how this can be reconciled with a departure from the single market and customs union.

For hardline Brexiters, none of this matters. Mr Johnson dismisses the Irish border as akin to the boundary between two London boroughs. The likes of Mr Johnson hold the Brexit prize too important to be held hostage to peace and prosperity across the Irish Sea. They have their sights set on the supposed restoration of national sovereignty.

There is a snag. More, really, than a snag. The repatriation of sovereignty is in large measure a chimera. As Mr Putin has reminded us, Britain cannot banish the facts of interdependence. In any event, in order to reclaim this claimed sovereignty, the Brexiters must suppress the will of, well, the parliament they promise to empower. Most MPs, including those on the Tory side, think Brexit will be bad for Britain. So, incidentally, do a majority of cabinet ministers. At the very least they want to soften the blow. But they are told by the prime minister they must vote for the good of party before country.

Perhaps there is a precedent. I cannot recall it. When last did Britain’s elected representatives take a decision that they fully expected would make the nation poorer, less influential and less secure? The cynicism takes one’s breath away.

There is an answer. A prime minister of principle would offer a free vote. Parliament should be charged with mapping the contours of Britain’s future relationship with its own continent. MPs should also be empowered to put the terms to the people in a second referendum. That really would be taking back control. Strange that the self-appointed champions of parliamentary sovereignty argue otherwise.

philip.stephens@ft.com

Jeez,I got told to be brief and concise!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 23, 2018, 12:36:15 pm
Jeez,I got told to be brief and concise!

hang on you dont understand, it is OK for dagwood to criticize you with his perry account but you absolutely cannot do the same back, no way, thats wayyyyyyyyyy out of order ;)

looking at the complete and utter disconsent other EU people think is OK to treat UK with. is it no wonder we wanted out ?

we where paying for them to enjoy the EU yet they hate us . . . . . . oh well, no more :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 08:53:52 am
Heard there could be a climb down on who processes the blue passports.

Shame if not as it would have been a good chance to let the EU know we will start to look after British interests above all others as from right now. Why quibble over a paltry £50m when we throw away billions ?. Could have sent a clear and important message at a time of heightened negotiations that we will not be messed with anymore.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 09:10:54 am
And to any argument that its against EU regulations to favour a home company. Just do what the French do when they don't like a particular directive...,.. Ignore it  ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 24, 2018, 09:37:54 am
. Just do what the French do when they don't like a particular directive...,.. Ignore it  ;)

As do Italy Greece and most Eastern European countries, Spain however simply never bother to read them, so they cannot be accused of ignoring a directive.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 24, 2018, 10:19:39 am
Is there an EU pot hole policy. If there is the UK is ignoring it. Just been back for 6 days to the North West and pot holes on major roads are a disgrace with councils saying they have no money to repair them. Its like driving in the back lands of Africa. Hopefully all the extra zillions of pounds we are going to get from trade around the world once out of the EU might help to buy some road repair kits so that we can have roads like we have in Fuerteventura.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 10:53:20 am
Get the pot holes fixed with money saved on EU payments and a cut in Foreign Aid.

Highly unlikely we will ever get one but whats needed is a decent Government that can differentiate between what is a priority and what isn't.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 10:54:08 am
. Just do what the French do when they don't like a particular directive...,.. Ignore it  ;)

As do Italy Greece and most Eastern European countries, Spain however simply never bother to read them, so they cannot be accused of ignoring a directive.

I'll thank that post.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Johnrgby2 on March 24, 2018, 13:37:47 pm
Is there an EU pot hole policy. If there is the UK is ignoring it. Just been back for 6 days to the North West and pot holes on major roads are a disgrace with councils saying they have no money to repair them. Its like driving in the back lands of Africa. Hopefully all the extra zillions of pounds we are going to get from trade around the world once out of the EU might help to buy some road repair kits so that we can have roads like we have in Fuerteventura.

Some years ago, maybe 5 when I lived in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire County Council decided to repair some of the many potholes around the county, and in order to prioritise them used fluorescent yellow spray paint to put circles around them, so the repair gangs would know which ones were to be repaired, a neighbour of mine a doctor in the local hospital got wind of this bought a couple of cans of paint and circled almost every pothole within 2 square mi;es of his home and they were filed in, howeve The GCC got wind of it, and threatened to prosecute him for vandalism,  a very short letter from his brother who is a solicitor stimied that idea. and he was bought more than a few pints on the back of that. :D
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 24, 2018, 13:51:40 pm
Regarding job losses, it was the guardian😊 better than relying on the daily mail or the sun in my opinion. Fact is only time will tell, every week it seems to get more complicated, pointless blaming May, whoever was in power was going to get royally screwed by the EU, exit simply wasn’t realistly thought through as everyone thought a no vote inevitable 😎
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 14:59:13 pm
Looks like it is just an opinion. May interest you to know that the Daily Mail has an estimated 31.1m monthly readers via print, PC and smart phone, the Sun has 28.8m and the Guardian 24.1m.

Easy to see then that the DM and Sun combined have around 60m readers per month in one form or another.

Of course you can blame May . She is Prime Minister of our country and has plenty of aces up her sleeve to use if she so wishes. The fact she doesn't tells me she is a remain Politician dressed up in Leave sheep's clothing. You can blame Cameron for the Brexit inertia post referendum. He gave it to the country then duly flounced out in a huff without ever putting in place a credible leave strategy. Left his successor holding the baby so to speak.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 24, 2018, 17:14:34 pm
Quantity doesn’t often equate with quality, have you recently read those papers? Seriously misinformed with an agenda they beAt you over the head with😂 hardly a source of informed balanced opinion? Having said that, Mail does have good tv listing booklet 😂 I suspect leavers would blame whoever was negotiating as we obviously weren’t going to get out easily and untouched and had leave agenda was simply unrealistic
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 18:54:35 pm
Have you recently read those papers?

Yes...have you? And all newspapers have a political agenda. Including the Guardian.

Ps... Although I buy the sun for the racing pages on a saturday I also find their political stance a little more palatable than I would the Guardian. Horses for courses as they say.

And Mrs May seems to think negotiations are going swimmingly. You worry too much, calm down.  8)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 24, 2018, 19:41:19 pm
And just checked the Office for National Statistics Claim is that the unemployment rate of 4.3% is the lowest in 4 decades. Hmmmm...someones telling porkies. ;)
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: spitfire58 on March 24, 2018, 20:37:43 pm
That’s because they have massaged so many figures to take numbers off the actual live register. Easy to manipulate figures when you are in power. It has been done for years but they now think the are so clever at it & we have been subject to manipulation for so long (we are just ignorant serfs after all) that we can’t/won’t see through it !!
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 25, 2018, 06:33:21 am
What about the Pot Holes? If you can't manage your pot holes how can you run a country?
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 25, 2018, 07:23:20 am
What about the Pot Holes? If you can't manage your pot holes how can you run a country?

The pot holes arrived while we are run by the EU.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: MalT on March 25, 2018, 18:08:06 pm
I suspect you will find the potholes breeding after we leave 😂
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on March 25, 2018, 19:17:00 pm
A jazzes lads there’s  a great evening, that hour makes a hell of a difference.
You can’t beat the long evenings.
Happy Easter to lot of you and easy on eggs
And if this post annoys anyone ye can feck off.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 26, 2018, 06:25:28 am
What about the Pot Holes? If you can't manage your pot holes how can you run a country?

The pot holes arrived while we are run by the EU.

Most of the pot holes have been caused by the Huge lorry's coming from the EU stacked with cheap goods and with foreign drivers always using the phones while driving. Once we leave and stop buying EU goods that we will grow/make ourselves the problem will ceases. I can smell the tarmac...
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 26, 2018, 08:00:58 am
No you got it wrong.

Most of the pot holes were caused by the recent bad weather which arrived from Siberia, crossing Eastern Europe.... most of which is in the EU now.

Blame them..
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 26, 2018, 08:24:02 am
No you got it wrong.

Most of the pot holes were caused by the recent bad weather which arrived from Siberia, crossing Eastern Europe.... most of which is in the EU now.

Blame them..
The pot holes are years old.

By gum its grim up north.........
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on March 26, 2018, 09:26:01 am
Better have a word with the brexit negotiating team and see if they can get a pot hole deal along with a trade deal.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on March 26, 2018, 11:47:29 am
pot holes

you know there is a easy way to get the pot hole problem fixed ? there is a app called fill that hole report it on there and they report it to the council, the council cant say they where not aware of that pothole so they wont pay out for damage to your car/bike/whatever as they do if you report direct.

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on March 26, 2018, 13:00:55 pm
pot holes

you know there is a easy way to get the pot hole problem fixed ? there is a app called fill that hole report it on there and they report it to the council, the council cant say they where not aware of that pothole so they wont pay out for damage to your car/bike/whatever as they do if you report direct.
Do you know how many pot holes there are. Zillions of them. There is not enough Tarmac available in the UK to fill them. There are even 4000 in Blackburn Lancashire according to the Beatles.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on April 03, 2018, 09:59:41 am
Just read that the French company that tendered the production of the blue British passports is bankrolled by the state giving it an unfair advantage and the chance to under cut De La Rue.  France ,Italy, Germany and Spain all produce their own passports citing among other reasons security ...nothing to do with costs, thus protecting their own companies and citizens jobs.

I can't be the only one asking why does our Government have to be pressured, cajoled  and require petitions for them to do the right thing for Britain. Why can they never do what all other EU states do and just ignore any directives which go against the UK's National interest.Why are they such slaves to EU rules and regulations when everyone else takes them or leaves them whenever it suits. We really do have the most lily livered bunch of Politicians running our country.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on April 03, 2018, 12:04:14 pm
the entire way the government spends is ridiculous

you need this paper, that qualification another type of employee, so in the end on the really big guys can quote and they charge more for all the hoops suppliers have to jump through, end result = the government gets the worst price with the worst terms.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Brayone on April 03, 2018, 14:51:19 pm
I suppose the UK government was damned if It did or damned if it didn't. Spend more in the interest of National Security and they are criticised for wasting money or by going for the most cost effective price they get it in the car for overlooking home based suppliers. A no win situation one would think.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on April 03, 2018, 16:35:15 pm
Hmmmm...I'd be inclined to agree with that if we had a government that was known for it's care with regards taxpayers money. The few million quid saved on the passport fiasco is a pee in the ocean when you look at the billions wasted on the HS2 rail link, foreign aid and their failure to come to grips with health tourism. And that's just for starters the list is endless.

And they don't seem so interested in giving the taxpayer value for money when it come's to claiming their expenses.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on April 22, 2018, 06:02:15 am
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6109734/finsbury-park-stabbing-dead-london-violence/

The capital of crime. No thanks, I will give it a miss.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on April 22, 2018, 09:28:57 am
If you live in FV you already have.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on April 22, 2018, 10:13:20 am
If you live in FV you already have.


A comment worthy of Viva.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: ashworth on April 22, 2018, 15:23:14 pm
If you live in FV you already have.

What a strange boy????
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on April 22, 2018, 15:27:03 pm
If you live in FV you already have.

What a strange boy????

I do believe Ass H0le is more appropriate 😉
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on April 22, 2018, 21:37:35 pm
I won't bite.. I think you've been on the lash again.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on April 22, 2018, 21:40:50 pm
I won't bite.. I think you've been on the lash again.

You will and I haven't 😊
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: Ivemovedon on April 22, 2018, 22:05:42 pm
You have and I won't..  :P

Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: dagwood on April 22, 2018, 22:11:06 pm
Your nibbling and I don’t partake.
Title: Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
Post by: vivafuerte on April 22, 2018, 23:25:21 pm
im looking like a bit of a fool again

we all agree