Author Topic: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis  (Read 1338 times)

Offline vivafuerte

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Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 15:02:38 pm »
Slightly hypocritical approach by the Irish you might say. But I'm sure they don't see it that way. Be interesting to hear their take on it.

Offline malabu

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 15:10:09 pm »
To busy getting revenge on the Brits, not easy to fight on two fronts.

Offline dagwood

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 15:15:14 pm »
To busy growing food to feed the brits and leaving our own people hungry.
I think beg might be a little over the top as it would not be in England’s interest to have the German army over the Irish Sea. Of course need I remind you that the Brits assisted the yanks and Russians to free europe. Then the paddy’s made a fortune rebuilding England.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 15:23:09 pm by dagwood »

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 15:24:18 pm »
should ireland be forced to pay UK for protecting them in the world wars ?

Offline dagwood

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 15:27:13 pm »
Britain couldn’t protect itself. Read the history.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 15:33:27 pm »
When I said it would be interesting to hear the Irish take on it I meant those capable of being informed and unbiased...not the anti British at all costs,  bigoted type. ;)

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 16:16:10 pm »
haha true

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 16:17:12 pm »
the paddy’s made a fortune

lol pocket change more like but that was mega money for you caravan dwellers.


Offline malabu

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 17:03:45 pm »
To busy growing food to feed the brits and leaving our own people hungry.
I think beg might be a little over the top as it would not be in England’s interest to have the German army over the Irish Sea. Of course need I remind you that the Brits assisted the yanks and Russians to free europe. Then the paddy’s made a fortune rebuilding England.

I bet your fellow country men love you,  you would rather fight us than the Germans, as the post says you did not have the guts to fight them, and can i remind you we stood alone for more than 2 years and we assisted no one, all those men dead and we have the likes of you still walking and spreading such number two, >:( >:( >:( 

Offline spitfire58

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 17:09:10 pm »
My heritage is Ireland & I lived there for half my life.
I always consider myself to BE Irish.
However, while I understand their position in WW2 with regard to Britain (considering they had only just got them out of Ireland a few years before) I disagree with their neutrality stance at that time.
It effectively, to my knowledge was hardly neutral and they were playing with fire in not siding with the rest of the world against Hitler (regardless of their feelings towards the British)

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 17:25:42 pm »
Once the SS, Gestapo and Einsatzgruppen boys got going the Brits would have looked like a walk in the park in comparison.

Offline skillt

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 19:02:12 pm »
Easy People, none of this Us and them but let’s get the facts correct:
Ireland was neutral but sided on the GB side as soldiers/ pilots arrested on Irish soil were never detained but Germans were interned till the end of the war. Ireland supplied both food and labour to the UK during the war. Ireland always passed on German boat and u boat, aeroplane movements to the UK. What little is known is that the UK had listening posts in Ireland / Donegal, Galway, Kerry, Cork, Dublin. Ireland kept the transatlantic communications cable open to the UK but refused its use to Germany. British fighters could land if needed at Irish Army bases and refuel and head home to the UK, but German fighters were impounded till the end of the war.
Total figures on Irish volunteers and war workers travel permits’, issued to Irish men and women in 1940-1945 was in the region of 246,000 to travel to the UK. From the UK records about 55,000 Irish men joined as soldiers stating nationality as Irish but many more joined using nationality as UK because of social reasons back home in Ireland. Northern Ireland sent about 37,000 soldiers. The remaining number worked in the factories supplying food and ammunitions.
The British under Bevin and other minister’s control from Churchill recognised that Irish labour provided an important reservoir for war work. A British Liaison Office was set up in Dublin to operate the arrangements agreed between the two countries.

The British and Irish Liaison office requested the meeting with the Irish Government May 10 1940 and the Irish sent its delegation.
I feel people are missing the point that the UK was vulnerable from the west and feared a German attack or diversion attach from its west/ Ireland, with all the UK resources focused towards its east. Germany had looked at this option and made limited reports but chose not to as they from papers released since 1945 knew that the Irish public was pro-British and anti-German.
Ireland was neutral but sided towards the UK, It’s a simple fact that what was being asked is that if Germany attacks Ireland, Ireland wanted the UK to be seen to the Irish public, that the UK was asking permission to enter Irish soil and I think the UK was correct in saying that they needed fair notice of the German invasion as they felt vulnerable from the Irish side and wanted to defend it.
From the Irish side, the Irish Government need this time to inform the public that this was not a UK invasion but a rescue from the Germans. Irish people have and still do side with the UK on most things we are alike but different.
No begging just a case of if A happens then B must be done first.

Offline malabu

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 19:28:07 pm »

There is a man with honesty and integrity 

Easy People, none of this Us and them but let’s get the facts correct:
Ireland was neutral but sided on the GB side as soldiers/ pilots arrested on Irish soil were never detained but Germans were interned till the end of the war. Ireland supplied both food and labour to the UK during the war. Ireland always passed on German boat and u boat, aeroplane movements to the UK. What little is known is that the UK had listening posts in Ireland / Donegal, Galway, Kerry, Cork, Dublin. Ireland kept the transatlantic communications cable open to the UK but refused its use to Germany. British fighters could land if needed at Irish Army bases and refuel and head home to the UK, but German fighters were impounded till the end of the war.
Total figures on Irish volunteers and war workers travel permits’, issued to Irish men and women in 1940-1945 was in the region of 246,000 to travel to the UK. From the UK records about 55,000 Irish men joined as soldiers stating nationality as Irish but many more joined using nationality as UK because of social reasons back home in Ireland. Northern Ireland sent about 37,000 soldiers. The remaining number worked in the factories supplying food and ammunitions.
The British under Bevin and other minister’s control from Churchill recognised that Irish labour provided an important reservoir for war work. A British Liaison Office was set up in Dublin to operate the arrangements agreed between the two countries.

The British and Irish Liaison office requested the meeting with the Irish Government May 10 1940 and the Irish sent its delegation.
I feel people are missing the point that the UK was vulnerable from the west and feared a German attack or diversion attach from its west/ Ireland, with all the UK resources focused towards its east. Germany had looked at this option and made limited reports but chose not to as they from papers released since 1945 knew that the Irish public was pro-British and anti-German.
Ireland was neutral but sided towards the UK, It’s a simple fact that what was being asked is that if Germany attacks Ireland, Ireland wanted the UK to be seen to the Irish public, that the UK was asking permission to enter Irish soil and I think the UK was correct in saying that they needed fair notice of the German invasion as they felt vulnerable from the Irish side and wanted to defend it.
From the Irish side, the Irish Government need this time to inform the public that this was not a UK invasion but a rescue from the Germans. Irish people have and still do side with the UK on most things we are alike but different.
No begging just a case of if A happens then B must be done first.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 19:29:30 pm »
I was always under the impression Irish soldiers who served Britain in whatever form and no matter who against were regarded as traitors. Reading some of the comments at the end of the original posters link from what looks like Irishmen I haven't changed my mind.

The whole point of an invasion is usually that surprise is king...either seaborne or airborne Ireland would have been overrun before it had time to think let alone follow procedures of informing the public and then the British government. Then how long to get men and supplies to an already occupied Ireland. Doesn't make sense to me. Even knowing how fast previous German attacks had done for Holland, Belgium and France, by taking the stance of no Brits they opened  themselves and the rest of the UK to the jackboot. Got nothing against Ireland whatsoever and I'm well aware many Irishmen did their bit but that was political madness.

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 19:36:31 pm »
I was always under the impression Irish soldiers who served Britain in whatever form and no matter who against were regarded as traitors.

this is true, im told to this day the medals earned by the Irish who did fight are still hidden away and nobody wants to admit they helped in the war.

Offline Charlie dont surf

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 19:40:36 pm »
Once the SS, Gestapo and Einsatzgruppen boys got going the Brits would have looked like a walk in the park in comparison.

If I had been in a band in the 80's I would have called them 'Einsatzgruppen boys'

Offline dagwood

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 20:16:18 pm »
Something else you lads don’t want to know.

3. Ireland - $69,231

Ireland's GDP per capita at PPP is estimated at 69,231 international dollars. The alcoholic beverage sector is one of Ireland's primary industries with a workforce of about 92,000. The pharmaceuticals, financial services, software, medical technologies, and aircraft leasing are some of the country's other major sectors. Ireland is among the top producers of lead and zinc in Europe which dominate its exports. More than 60 credit institutions are incorporated in the country. Ireland is recognized as one of the most profitable nations for US corporations in the world.
The poor auld U.K. is way down the list.
Do you want to buy a few well minded caravans Viva. Good price for you.

Offline Charlie dont surf

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 20:27:57 pm »
Actually, on second thoughts. I'd drop the boys and just call them Einsatzgruppen. Probably open up with a cover of the Ramones Blitzrieg Bop.

Offline skillt

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 20:33:49 pm »
vivafuerte,
You’re looking at it from your Anglo point of view but from the Irish Government side they knew that if the Germans invaded and the British attacked public option would have sided with the Germans and the British would have to fight the local population and the Germans.
The notice given to the public would have been minutes not days; of course you’re correct the Germans would have taken Ireland not in a day or two but hours, this is not deputed between the British and Irish. It was a political stunt for the Irish Government, to appear to have given permission for a British invasion thus gain support from the local Irish population that would have provided gruella behind enemy line tactics.
Germany had knowledge that Churchill was thinking of an invasion and from my reading was just waiting for Churchill to make the fatal step, Germany sent four U-boats to appear off the Galway coast surveying beaches knowing that the Irish would forward the information to the British.
From British war records the British had drawn up plans to invaded Ireland during the war as Churchill was angry Ireland had not sided publicly with the UK. Churchill made delegation to the Irish Government for Ireland to join the war.
Ireland used its neutrality card, this angered Churchill who ordered plains for an Irish invasion to be drawn up. Churchill also even suggested forced inscription in Ireland after the invasion. Churchill feared Ireland would side with Germany; this was quickly rubbished by people around Churchill and from reports from the British Ambassador to Ireland and also intercepted German commutations, German was angry at Ireland for a number of reason as I have stated in my other post, Germany knew that Ireland was pro-British
Germany had knowledge that Churchill was thinking of an invasion and from my reading was just waiting for Churchill to make the fatal step, Germany sent four U-boats to appear off the Galway coast surveying beaches knowing that the Irish would forward the information to the British.
Vivafuerte, Your statement ‘I was always under the impression Irish soldiers who served Britain in whatever form and no matter whom against were regarded as traitors’
This in the past would have been correct about World War 1 as Irish were classed as British and after fighting for GB and then to return to a newly formed Republic of Ireland wearing the uniform of the enemy that has just departed would not have gone down well.
My own family has had a long history even today two nephews fighting and joining the British Army. I had two uncles that fought for queen and also against the Queen here on Irish soil.  This option of men fighting for the British in World War 1 as traitors is gone a long time and both Governments together have commemorations both in the UK and Flanders for the Irish Men who fought and died in the British Army.
World War 2 was very different, men returning where seen as Irish heroes, those whom fought for world good against the evil Germans. The Government allowed British Army recruiting offices in all major towns, cities in Ireland and provided at the cost to the Irish Republic transport by boat to Liverpool under an Irish flagged mail boat that was actually carrying new sign ups that had undergone four weeks Irish Army training before departing to the UK so, Ireland public was black and white but was working away in the grey area of events.
Ireland with pride stands by its past Irish men that fought in both World Wars and are honoured every year as with the UK. In Irish towns and cities monuments stand for both Wars.
As for my family to be honest I think a chance of adventure, travel and to be even more honest a good weekly wage from the British Army to feed a growing family back in Ireland was the main attraction.

That's all from myself on this matter, i'll let others stir the pot..........

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2018, 20:34:15 pm »
without the EU tax breaks for companies ireland would be dust, the UK not only pays your EU fees for you it also pays for you to enable global brands to operate relatively tax free and employ locals in ireland instead of if it was a level playing feild and they set up in the main market, UK and employed local staff in UK.

any wonder why we got out ?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 20:42:32 pm by vivafuerte »

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2018, 20:35:14 pm »
the irish would rather be nazis than join together and fight the nazis

OK thats cleared that one up

Offline skillt

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2018, 20:42:01 pm »
' without the EU tax breaks for companies ireland would be dust '

Fact, but these are Irish Tax breaks not EU.

EU in fact want to end such tax breaks, just as they want to end  the city of London's, Belgium's, Holland etc.

All pigs eat the same stuff from the same trough but its how much you muscle in and how quick you eat.
No point standing there looking at it, dig in yummmmmmm.

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2018, 20:44:16 pm »
irish tax breaks paid for by EU

remember we bailed you guys out a few years ago and there are still orrid little racist trolls like dagwood who veheminently hate us for that.

if everyone was happy we wouldnt have got out, simple as that

Offline skillt

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2018, 20:51:59 pm »
As soon as Ireland's journey ends with the EU we will jump ship but with whom ?

Yes ye bailed out Ireland but to be honest it was German banks and pension funds that ye, they were saving.

Hats off to the UK gave Ireland 7 Billion at 1.5%, was paid back in full two years later, but part of the deal was that Ireland hold Royal Bank of Scotland's bad debts here in Ireland, its a little bit you scratch my pork belly and ill do yours.

Ireland and UK are more alike than people think, an Irish man is more at home in the UK than Paris or Berlin. I think our paths will merge sooner than later with the way the EU is going, its just we think we can shake a few more euros out before we go.

Just my humble option is that the UK left it late to leave all the damage that has been done, you cant undo that, pity that such a great country has become what it is, but ye might turn it around and show others that it can be done without the French/ Germans.
People are in the club because its fashionable at the moment but with time fashions change.
I have no issues with the UK or its people, I wish ye the best post EU, so others may follow you.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 21:02:26 pm by skillt »

Offline Deso

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2018, 20:59:07 pm »
vivafuerte,
You’re looking at it from your Anglo point of view but from the Irish Government side they knew that if the Germans invaded and the British attacked public option would have sided with the Germans and the British would have to fight the local population and the Germans.
The notice given to the public would have been minutes not days; of course you’re correct the Germans would have taken Ireland not in a day or two but hours, this is not deputed between the British and Irish. It was a political stunt for the Irish Government, to appear to have given permission for a British invasion thus gain support from the local Irish population that would have provided gruella behind enemy line tactics.
Germany had knowledge that Churchill was thinking of an invasion and from my reading was just waiting for Churchill to make the fatal step, Germany sent four U-boats to appear off the Galway coast surveying beaches knowing that the Irish would forward the information to the British.
From British war records the British had drawn up plans to invaded Ireland during the war as Churchill was angry Ireland had not sided publicly with the UK. Churchill made delegation to the Irish Government for Ireland to join the war.
Ireland used its neutrality card, this angered Churchill who ordered plains for an Irish invasion to be drawn up. Churchill also even suggested forced inscription in Ireland after the invasion. Churchill feared Ireland would side with Germany; this was quickly rubbished by people around Churchill and from reports from the British Ambassador to Ireland and also intercepted German commutations, German was angry at Ireland for a number of reason as I have stated in my other post, Germany knew that Ireland was pro-British
Germany had knowledge that Churchill was thinking of an invasion and from my reading was just waiting for Churchill to make the fatal step, Germany sent four U-boats to appear off the Galway coast surveying beaches knowing that the Irish would forward the information to the British.
Vivafuerte, Your statement ‘I was always under the impression Irish soldiers who served Britain in whatever form and no matter whom against were regarded as traitors’
This in the past would have been correct about World War 1 as Irish were classed as British and after fighting for GB and then to return to a newly formed Republic of Ireland wearing the uniform of the enemy that has just departed would not have gone down well.
My own family has had a long history even today two nephews fighting and joining the British Army. I had two uncles that fought for queen and also against the Queen here on Irish soil.  This option of men fighting for the British in World War 1 as traitors is gone a long time and both Governments together have commemorations both in the UK and Flanders for the Irish Men who fought and died in the British Army.
World War 2 was very different, men returning where seen as Irish heroes, those whom fought for world good against the evil Germans. The Government allowed British Army recruiting offices in all major towns, cities in Ireland and provided at the cost to the Irish Republic transport by boat to Liverpool under an Irish flagged mail boat that was actually carrying new sign ups that had undergone four weeks Irish Army training before departing to the UK so, Ireland public was black and white but was working away in the grey area of events.
Ireland with pride stands by its past Irish men that fought in both World Wars and are honoured every year as with the UK. In Irish towns and cities monuments stand for both Wars.
As for my family to be honest I think a chance of adventure, travel and to be even more honest a good weekly wage from the British Army to feed a growing family back in Ireland was the main attraction.

That's all from myself on this matter, i'll let others stir the pot..........

OK thats cleared that one up

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2018, 21:08:00 pm »
uk should regret leaving the EU

you would say that, you benefitted more from that little agreement than UK did.

Offline dagwood

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2018, 21:10:18 pm »
You know it makes me laugh when Viva says “we got out”. Id really wait until next March before making that statement.  Skillet don’t you know the latest polls say 90% of the population would vote to stay in the E.U.
We are nothing like the brits that is if you can find one. Even Ivemovedon claims to be half Irish.
In the last 50years or so we more or less populated the U.K. even Maggie thatcher had Irish blood in her veins. The Royal Family are at least 1/2 German. So not that many true blue brits. I suppose I’ll be charitable and say they’re  a cosmopolitan race with a lot of Irish blood.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 21:12:43 pm by dagwood »

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2018, 21:11:27 pm »
latest polls say 90% of the population would vote to stay in the E.U.

proof ?

i'll give you a hint, it didnt happen

Offline dagwood

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Re: Ireland planned to beg UK for help if it was invaded by the Nazis
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2018, 21:15:10 pm »
latest polls say 90% of the population would vote to stay in the E.U.

proof ?

i'll give you a hint, it didnt happen
I’m referring to Ireland. No you lot who don’t seem to be going anywhere fast.