Fuerteventura Forum

General Chit Chat & Queries - no commercial links => Money, Currency & Banks etc. => Topic started by: conair on August 03, 2012, 19:46:57 PM

Title: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on August 03, 2012, 19:46:57 PM
Just trying to find out the general situation regarding the interest rates the banks are charging.
Unfortunately have 2 mortgages with solbank and are currently being charged 4.5 %.
With all the hoo haa regarding rates in Spain and the euribor at the lowest level ever just over 1% why are the rate sbeing sharged still so high.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Deso on August 03, 2012, 21:24:31 PM
Our mortgage is 0.75 over 12 month euribor and for this last year has been around 2.3%.
If the rate stays roughly as it is then next years will be around 1.8 ish.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on August 04, 2012, 17:16:37 PM
Hi Deso.
Thanks for your reply.
Is this a solbank mortgage or another bank.
Thnaks
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Lostboys on August 06, 2012, 21:01:35 PM
you my also find that you have a floor limit on your morgage meaning that no matter how low the Euribor falls, your mortgage will not fall below this percentage.  This will be stated on your title deeds where you signed for your mortgage.  Between 2007 and 2012 many banks were adding this to mortgages although it has since been proven to be illegal.
Have a look at your mortgage deeds and if you do have a floor limit, speak to you bank first about getting this removed.  If they refuse, speak to your lawyer about it.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on August 07, 2012, 03:23:23 AM
Hi Lostboys,
When was the floor interest deemed illegal?
Many thanks
The cooler.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 07, 2012, 08:08:17 AM
Here you are The Cooler


According to a report made on the 4th of February, the Nº 11 Commercial Court of Madrid has agreed to process the largest class action lawsuit filed in Spain against 45 financial institutions for the implementation of so called "ground clauses" in mortgages.

Judge Miriam Iglesias accepted the application filed by the consumer association Adicae and opened a period of two months to all those affected by this type of product.

In addition, the judge will forward the complaint to the prosecutor for a decision in this regard and has opened a separate section to decide whether to adopt the precautionary measure requested by Adicae to immediately paralyze the inclusion of these clauses in mortgages until the process is completed.

For now, the lawsuit has been filed on behalf of around 400 bank customers and it calls for the invalidity of these clauses due to gross disproportion between the floor and ceiling limits on interest rates fixed on mortgage contracts.

"Ground clauses" set a minimum threshold of interest payable, which has prevented many customers in benefitting from the fall in the Euribor (the main reference rate in variable mortgages). These clauses were mainly included in mortgages given between 2007 and 2008.

At the request of the Senate, the Bank of Spain has completed a report which shows that in Spain there are 3.8 million people with these types of clauses in their mortgage contracts. Adicae estimated that in 2010, the banks received between 3,500 and 7,000 million euros for these clauses at the detriment of the consumer.

The defendants are: BBVA, Banco Pastor, Banco Sabadell, Banco Popular, Banco Guipuzcoano, Banco de Galicia, Banco Gallego, Banco Vasconia, La Caixa, Caixa Galicia, Caixa Inmaculada, Caixa d´Estalvis de Girona, Caixa Manresa, Caixa Nova, Caixa Ontinyent, Caixa Penedés, Caixa Rural de Baleares, Caixa Sabadell, Caixa Tarragona, Caja Castilla-La Mancha, Caja Círculo, Caja de Ahorros de Extremadura, Caja de Badajoz, Caja Duero, Caja España, Caja Canarias, Unicaja, Kutxa, Caja Granada, Caja Insular de Ahorros de Canarias, Multicaja, Caja Rural de Asturias, Caja Rural de Cuenca, Caja Rural de Granada, Caja Rural de Navarra, Caja Rural del Sur, Caja Segovia, Caja Sol, Caja Sur, Cajalon, Caja Mar, Caixa d´Estalvis de Catalunya, Tarragona i Manresa, Caixa d´Estalvis Unió de Caixes Manlleu Sabadell i Terrasa, Celeris Servicios Financieros and Credifimo.

In October 2010, the Nº 2 Commercial Court of Seville imposed the first judgment in Spain against 5 banks by declaring that these ground clauses were abusive and forced the banks to eliminate them and to refrain from using them in successive contracts. This decision has been contested and is on appeal with the Provincial Court of Seville.

The judge then concluded that the abuse lies in the apparent gap between the floor and ceiling limits of mortgages which provides a benefit to the bank whatever way the mortgage rate goes.

                                                        ................................

It was estimated that 9000 mortgages were affected by this in Fuerteventura and a group action was taken subsequently by Adicae.

Some of the Forum members managed to get a refund from their banks after getting in touch with Adicae and their Lawyers. I put all of the articles and details about how to go about it on an old thread called READ THIS THEN CHECK YOUR MORTGAGE but I cant manage to open it....maybe it was one of the ones that got lost in Cyberspace....but try it and see....it might open for you. :)




Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Deso on August 07, 2012, 18:06:27 PM
Quote from: conair on August 04, 2012, 17:16:37 PM
Hi Deso.
Thanks for your reply.
Is this a solbank mortgage or another bank.
Thnaks

Barclays in Rosario.  :D
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on August 07, 2012, 18:14:22 PM
Thank you Fifi ,
The banks are still using the floor in their mortgage conditions .
I have recently purchased and the floor was part of the conditions.Banca Sabadell
What should be my first course of action?
Many thanks
The Cooler
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 07, 2012, 18:25:39 PM
Its a pity I cant manage to open the links from the old Forum. I had all the details there. I will ask Admin if there is any way of accessing them. First of all I guess you should contact your bank and ask them to check it for you and if you do not get anywhere with them  you could contact the Financial consumer complaints office which started the first group action and see what they say. I know someone that got €800 back immediately before he even submitted a legal claim by just going to the bank. Here is the link.... http://adicae.net/ (http://adicae.net/)


Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 07, 2012, 19:03:05 PM
There are a few articles about it on their website if you want to run them through Google translate. I havent had the time to read them to see the updates. http://afectadosclausulasuelo.org/# (http://afectadosclausulasuelo.org/#)  http://afectadosclausulasuelo.org/archivos/AdicaePropuestaLeyClausulasSuelo.pdf (http://afectadosclausulasuelo.org/archivos/AdicaePropuestaLeyClausulasSuelo.pdf)

Waiting to see if Admin get back to me about the old threads. :)

PS. A July magazine here all about the ground clauses....http://www.afectadosclausulasuelo.org/archivos/Periodico-Boletin_ESPECIAL_CLAUSULAS_SUELO_2012.pdf (http://www.afectadosclausulasuelo.org/archivos/Periodico-Boletin_ESPECIAL_CLAUSULAS_SUELO_2012.pdf)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 07, 2012, 19:38:00 PM
Sorry the old thread was lost with the change over to the new Forum. I will PM you if I find out the details from my friend about his case.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on August 07, 2012, 20:32:40 PM
Thank you Fifi for all your efforts. I am out next week and I will make tentative enquiries at the branch.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 07, 2012, 21:14:14 PM
Welcome. Good luck with it. :)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on August 08, 2012, 20:40:02 PM
Spoke with solbank today and they say that the floor is no longer applicable to new mortgages but deny any liability for existing mortgage holders wit this clause in their deed.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on August 08, 2012, 22:42:25 PM
I'll be making the same call tomorrow . Took my mortgage in feb 2012, and I have the collar in my clause.
After my first years fixed rate goes , hopefully I can get unlocked from this unfair practice.
Can't contact a lawer though, they all seem to take the month of August off.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on August 09, 2012, 14:59:31 PM
Quote from: conair on August 08, 2012, 20:40:02 PM
Spoke with solbank today and they say that the floor is no longer applicable to new mortgages but deny any liability for existing mortgage holders wit this clause in their deed.



I contacted Solbank, atlantico branch (via e /mail) requesting the removal of my clause.
I have revived the branches reply .
They state that they believe the sentence was against BBVA, & incredibly, they state that all new mortgages still contain the min/ max rate clause, and you couldn't make this up , the min rate has now increased to 4.5% from 4.25%
Oh and I can't have the clause removed.I will let the dust settle ,& then it's roll your sleeves up time.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: dagwood on August 09, 2012, 15:10:00 PM
Banks are at every trick in the book and when they get caught its an error. Always rember banks are bas tards.  Thats the first lesson given in the financial services industry.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: raye on August 09, 2012, 16:54:54 PM
I have e-mailed Banco Popular re my ground clause and this is the brief and curt reply i got:

"Your mortgage is based on the Euribor , but the problem is the ground and we can´t remove it.

Sorry and regards"
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on August 09, 2012, 17:18:08 PM
Sounds like a number of the banks are sticking together wth their reponces.Have previously heard that a few clients were offered refunds does any body know which are the banks that have offered this.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: dagwood on August 09, 2012, 17:44:22 PM
Is there a Spanish version of The Consumer Credit Act or a Regulator of Spanish banks you could speak to.Its  suppose to be the same all over the EU states. Also I would ask for one of those complaint forms that all retail outlets in Spain must keep. Dont forget a bank is a retail outlet.   
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 10, 2012, 08:55:55 AM
Adicae are the consumer association for the banks Dagwood. I found a reasonable explanation in English about what is going on here.... http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/spain/faq/spanish-mortgage-loans-beware-of-abusive-clauses/ (http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/spain/faq/spanish-mortgage-loans-beware-of-abusive-clauses/)

The July Adicae magazine above lists the banks that are involved in legal cases.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: dagwood on August 10, 2012, 09:20:54 AM
Interesting stuff I will study it later. When you look at the carry on of our own banks, British and Irish it makes you ask yourself what tricks are they up to if you cant read the contract. Just rember the banks are stuck for money and desprate people will do desprate things. 
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 10, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
This bit is interesting....

3. Mortgage resetting rate. This particularly annoying abusive clause allows the lender to automatically reset the mortgage interest rate when the referred index increases (i.e. Euribor) but requires the borrower to notify the lender formally when the opposite takes place. This may not be a problem when you live in Spain but may become a real nuisance if you live abroad as you will surely skip the deadlines to notify the lender meaning you will not be able to benefit if the referred interest rate decreases.

A variant of this clause is the unique ability of lenders to react swiftly and efficiently to rises in the interest rate of reference in a mortgage loan but likewise show an inordinate inability should the opposite happen. Lenders would make a seasoned cheetah blush when it comes to their speed and agility in revising and resetting mortgage rates on a quarterly basis -if it benefits them- whilst a borrower can only reset his rate annually (providing of course they actually notify the lender in time in most instances...bit of problem mind you complying with a deadline if you happen to live abroad). What this means is that a lender can take immediate advantage of a rise of interest rates (charging a borrower more from the get-go) whereas suspiciously they prove themselves to be obtusely slow to react to a decrease in interest rates (meaning they would earn less as you would be paying less in your monthly instalments) and of course it falls on the borrower to nudge them to reset the rate in their favour. That is why it is abusive, because –again– it is one-sided.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on August 19, 2012, 11:38:58 AM
Latest information from solbank is that the floor limits on mortgages have not been deemed illegal in any court.
Does anybody know different.
Any info much apprecaited.
Thanks
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 19, 2012, 13:01:26 PM
Page three in the Adicae magazine seems to be giving an up to date account of how the cases are going. http://www.afectadosclausulasuelo.org/archivos/Periodico-Boletin_ESPECIAL_CLAUSULAS_SUELO_2012.pdf (http://www.afectadosclausulasuelo.org/archivos/Periodico-Boletin_ESPECIAL_CLAUSULAS_SUELO_2012.pdf)

I dont know how to do an online translation with a PDF file.

Perhaps someone else can translate it.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Lostboys on August 19, 2012, 13:17:15 PM
Translation:

The judicial process is continuing even though the banks are dragging their feet.
The banks know that we are taking legal action against them.  With regards to this, the first people affected have received a call from their bank to try to come to an "agreement".  If this is your case, be careful.  Don´t sign anything before contacting ADICAE with the proposal.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Paddster on August 19, 2012, 16:40:27 PM
I love and appreciate all the tips and advice you put on ere Fi,if i ever manage to buy somewhere over there in the future you're the first person i'm coming to..Great stuff and really helpful.....
Regards,Paddy..... :) :)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 19, 2012, 18:59:20 PM
Thanks Paddster and Lostboys for the translation. :)

Is there a way of doing  translations of a large PDF file with an online translator?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TamaraEnLaPlaya on August 19, 2012, 20:45:22 PM
Hi Fi
Not tried this but it may help:

http://www.labnol.org/internet/tools/translate-pdf-word-documents-online-google-translate/3553/ (http://www.labnol.org/internet/tools/translate-pdf-word-documents-online-google-translate/3553/)

let us know how you get on?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 19, 2012, 22:15:16 PM
Thanks Tamara, I have just tried Translator toolkit, but without any success. I will play around with it tomorrow again and see what I am doing wrong. Perhaps the file size is too big or something?

Will let you know if I manage it. :)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on January 29, 2013, 23:27:03 PM
Hi all

just wondering if there has been any progress in this matter since the last post.  I too have a floor clause and am interested in taking a case against the bank  Perhaps if we all got together and pursued this it mave garner some result
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on January 29, 2013, 23:57:57 PM
You can check the judgements here Ocart.

http://asuapedefin.com/sentencias/todas/ (http://asuapedefin.com/sentencias/todas/)

http://asuapedefin.com/ (http://asuapedefin.com/)

Also try the ADICAE magazine or website for up to date information.... http://adicae.net/ (http://adicae.net/)

Jose Escobedo and Mario Izquierdo (Lawyers) advertised in The Lanzarote Gazette looking for cases.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on January 30, 2013, 07:29:52 AM
I wrote to Sol Bank about 3 weeks ago using one of the many sample letter
but had a reply to say they are not doing any refunds

I for one would be happy to join in with a group effort

Regarda

Sarah
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on January 30, 2013, 15:29:54 PM
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fasuapedefin.com%2Fcategory%2Fresoluciones-judiciales%2Fotras-sentencias%2Fclausula-suelo-otras-sentencias%2F&act=url (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fasuapedefin.com%2Fcategory%2Fresoluciones-judiciales%2Fotras-sentencias%2Fclausula-suelo-otras-sentencias%2F&act=url)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on January 30, 2013, 16:16:25 PM
There are a lot of cases being won for swap clauses too as well as  other illegal banking practises.

http://belegal.com/wordpress/have-you-been-a-victim-of-a-swap-clause-act-now/ (http://belegal.com/wordpress/have-you-been-a-victim-of-a-swap-clause-act-now/)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on January 30, 2013, 16:47:04 PM
Hi Fifi

Thanks for all your help as always I have sent an email to mario@lanzarotelawyers.com asking if they are taking cases in Fuerte and will report back here once I receive a reply

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on January 30, 2013, 17:23:14 PM
Hi Sarah1312

Looking forward to the result of your enquiry.  As I said there may be strength in numbers

Michael
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on January 30, 2013, 17:24:45 PM
Thanks fifi for all you help
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on January 31, 2013, 02:56:11 AM
Welcome. I love researching Spanish law. Let us all know how you get on. :)


When I have the time I will do a bit more research on the subject.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: mickeyb01 on January 31, 2013, 10:31:59 AM
Hi there, not been on here for a while and forgot my password so have a new account. I have a mortgage with Solbank in Corralejo and it is currently set to 3.7% due to the floor limit cap you mention. I have contacted the bank to ask to have this removed with no luck but they did agree to lower the limit to a minimum of 3% from 3.5% with some persuasion.
My question is can you transfer your mortgage to a better rate at another bank like you can very easily in England and if so which is currently the best rate and bank to transfer to?
I agree this is a complete rip off as the Base rate is very low and is not being passed on to their customers and is making it very hard for people to meet their mortgage payments.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on January 31, 2013, 13:55:30 PM
Hi MickeyB, Spanish mortgages often have what is called a Subrogación fee  written into the small print. It is the percentage that is charged if you decide to change mortgage providers. You would need to check your mortgage document to see what is written on yours or alternatively contact the bank. From memory I think that mine was set at 2% .


Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on February 01, 2013, 13:01:08 PM
Hi
Glad to see someone had success with solbank.
Who did you deal with to negotiate a lower rate.
Thanks
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on February 01, 2013, 16:57:43 PM
No reply from Solicitors yet!

My mortgage is set at Euribor + .8% but I have a floor clause of 4.25% which is a killer!

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on February 06, 2013, 10:56:48 AM
Hi Sarah

Any word from the Solicitors yet?

Michael
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on February 06, 2013, 12:30:26 PM
No nothing as yet
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Deso on February 06, 2013, 15:17:56 PM
Quote from: mickeyb01 on January 31, 2013, 10:31:59 AM
Hi there, not been on here for a while and forgot my password so have a new account. I have a mortgage with Solbank in Corralejo and it is currently set to 3.7% due to the floor limit cap you mention. I have contacted the bank to ask to have this removed with no luck but they did agree to lower the limit to a minimum of 3% from 3.5% with some persuasion.
My question is can you transfer your mortgage to a better rate at another bank like you can very easily in England and if so which is currently the best rate and bank to transfer to?
I agree this is a complete rip off as the Base rate is very low and is not being passed on to their customers and is making it very hard for people to meet their mortgage payments.

It will be a pointless exercise to move your mortgage now. New mortgages are between 4.85 and 5.25% at the moment so you are better off as you are.
They will only lend between 60 and 70% of purchase price as well. Seems to have gone the same way as the UK.
How they expect to sell all the empty/repossessed properties I'll never know.  ::)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on February 16, 2013, 11:01:28 AM
Just had this response from Solbank >:(

Dear Mr. Gillan,
 
Your interest wasn't change due the minimum interest rate you have on your mortgage. In this case the minimum is always 3,75% and maximum 12%. This is the clausula floor signed on your mortgage.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: appy ammer on February 16, 2013, 17:28:12 PM
Quote from: F1REFLY999 on February 16, 2013, 11:01:28 AM
Just had this response from Solbank >:(

Dear Mr. Gillan,

Your interest wasn't change due the minimum interest rate you have on your mortgage. In this case the minimum is always 3,75% and maximum 12%. This is the clausula floor signed on your mortgage.

FF I bet your relieved it wont go any higher than 12%  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on February 16, 2013, 17:36:50 PM
If it goes to 12% I'm coming to you for a loan Brendan   :P
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on March 20, 2013, 14:03:58 PM
Breaking news....http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eleconomista.es%2Fvivienda%2Fnoticias%2F4688326%2F03%2F13%2FEl-Supremo-declara-la-nulidad-de-las-clausulas-en-los-casos-de-falta-de-transparencia.html (http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eleconomista.es%2Fvivienda%2Fnoticias%2F4688326%2F03%2F13%2FEl-Supremo-declara-la-nulidad-de-las-clausulas-en-los-casos-de-falta-de-transparencia.html)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on March 20, 2013, 14:25:21 PM
Thanks once again fifi  Looks like the banks win again as the judgement does not require a repayment of amounts already paid.    It is unlikely that we will get a proper rate without floor clause until the judgement is made that it is illegal and should be stopped.  We will keep the faith


Michael
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on March 20, 2013, 18:21:59 PM
It looks that way allright Michael. I think there should be more news tomorrow.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on March 26, 2013, 15:10:07 PM
Re other posting on this subject just for people that have request notification

Good news white-baos.com have replied to my email asking to see a copy of my Mortgage agreement so have to collect one when I am over 17/4 and then we will see what they say

I will keep you all posted

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: seane on May 15, 2013, 14:24:59 PM
Is there any news?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on May 15, 2013, 15:02:57 PM
Latest Update

WB asked for a copy of Mortgage agreement
Sol Bank said they would/could not post or email had to be collected!
I collected late April while I was over (22 pages) posted of to WB 
Had an email asking had I forgot to copy back pages as there are pages missing?
Chased Bank they insisted I had received all ask for confirmation of no they said they also had 22
WB said there are pages missing
Bank checked again and agreed and have requested another copy from the Notary
Will be interesting to see what happens if they cant get said pages from Notary as you have guessed its the one with the clause!!!!



Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on May 15, 2013, 22:35:49 PM
Good luck with it Sarah. :)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on June 12, 2013, 23:34:48 PM
BBVA will be removing floor clauses from mortgages. http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/12/inenglish/1371062637_885062.html (http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/12/inenglish/1371062637_885062.html)

http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Felpais.com%2Ftag%2Fclausula_suelo%2Fa%2F&act=url (http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Felpais.com%2Ftag%2Fclausula_suelo%2Fa%2F&act=url)


http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Feconomia.elpais.com%2Feconomia%2F2013%2F06%2F12%2Factualidad%2F1371046472_522293.html&act=url (http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Feconomia.elpais.com%2Feconomia%2F2013%2F06%2F12%2Factualidad%2F1371046472_522293.html&act=url)

Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on June 16, 2013, 12:04:19 PM
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/13/inenglish/1371143492_372333.html (http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/13/inenglish/1371143492_372333.html)

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/14/inenglish/1371217894_682766.html?rel=rosEP (http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/14/inenglish/1371217894_682766.html?rel=rosEP)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on June 18, 2013, 13:38:10 PM
Hi
Solbank are still denying the illegality of these floor clauses.
Has any body else had a similar response.
Thanks
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on June 18, 2013, 18:47:53 PM
Hello Fifi
Once again you have been most helpful on this particular subject.
I seem to remember reading one of your previous posts that covered the subject of the banks transparency regarding the floor clauses.I think you posted a link.
I just wondered if you have this info available.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on June 18, 2013, 20:10:49 PM
Quote from: conair on June 18, 2013, 13:38:10 PM
Hi
Solbank are still denying the illegality of these floor clauses.
Has any body else had a similar response.
Thanks

Yes Conair , I emailed the Caleta branch in Aug 2012.
I asked them in light of recent court cases perhaps they should consider removing my clause,and as I hadn't had the mortgage for too long I wouldn't persue them for compensation for any back dated overpayments.
Their reply was to state that the clause is legal , and that i should count myself lucky as the collar rate had infact increased.
And so it remains. I'm sure it's days are numbered.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on June 18, 2013, 21:26:58 PM
Quote from: conair on June 18, 2013, 18:47:53 PM
Hello Fifi
Once again you have been most helpful on this particular subject.
I seem to remember reading one of your previous posts that covered the subject of the banks transparency regarding the floor clauses.I think you posted a link.
I just wondered if you have this info available.
Many thanks.


Is this the one you mean Conair ? http://www.roundtownnews.com/rtn-features/rtn-legal/item/39868-mortgage-floor-rates.html (http://www.roundtownnews.com/rtn-features/rtn-legal/item/39868-mortgage-floor-rates.html)

All of the other links are on the BBVA thread. http://www.fuerteventura-forum.com/index.php?topic=15098.0 (http://www.fuerteventura-forum.com/index.php?topic=15098.0)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: limpet on June 19, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
Hi Conair, if you would give me your number I could fill you in on the new process, I
have been helping a friend this week, all is not lost.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on June 19, 2013, 16:12:32 PM
Hi Wayne

I would also be interested in what you know if you could email me at michael.hexmm@gmail.com. Many thanks

Michael
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on June 19, 2013, 22:42:07 PM
Another El Pais article. http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/19/inenglish/1371643206_535904.html (http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/19/inenglish/1371643206_535904.html)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on June 20, 2013, 04:58:51 AM
Hi Wayne.
I would be very interested to talk with you.
Please call me on 663486578 any time after 4 pm tomorrow or over weekend.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on June 20, 2013, 09:35:56 AM
Hi Wayne.
Just a thought is there as tel no i can ring you on or an email address.
Many thanks
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on June 20, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
Without the threat of retroactive compensation or arbitry fines , there is nothing in place to force banks like Sabadell & Banco popular to remove their clauses.
So it's carry on as usual chaps.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: thomo on June 20, 2013, 21:37:45 PM
bit in this article about the clauses  http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/20/inenglish/1371754349_878710.html (http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/20/inenglish/1371754349_878710.html)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on July 22, 2013, 09:00:42 AM
Latest news from solbank is that they are still denying the illegality of these clauses.
This dispite the courts rulings .
Does anybody have any suggestions.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 16, 2013, 22:14:19 PM
        Details in English of the Spanish bank Ombudsman scheme http://www.bde.es/bde/en/secciones/servicios/Particulares_y_e/Servicio_de_Recl/ (http://www.bde.es/bde/en/secciones/servicios/Particulares_y_e/Servicio_de_Recl/) and list of relevant contact details per bank. http://www.bde.es/servicio/reclama/bancos.pdf (http://www.bde.es/servicio/reclama/bancos.pdf)

No harm in trying. :)
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: dagwood on August 26, 2013, 18:04:38 PM
It might be worth noting, if you take legal advice the Ombudsman will refuse to look at your claim. That's the case in Ireland and it would probably be the same in all EU countries. It does no harm to remind them of the Spanish Financial Regulator who I believe takes themselves very seriously. Always say you will bring your problem to the Regulators attention. And do so if need be. No bank wants the Regulator on their house. Banks all over the world are bullies and you need to stand up to them.     
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on August 29, 2013, 10:13:09 AM
The Voice magazine has an article this month written by Sabrina Willians from Canary Admin Services. The paper is online if anyone wants to read the full article. http://thevoice-fuerteventura.com/online-issue (http://thevoice-fuerteventura.com/online-issue)

In it she also recommends contacting the Banks Ombudsman. (See last link that I have put on my previous post). The Bank has to issue a response to them within four months and the final report may be used in court if it determines the floor clause to be abusive. First step recommended before this is to contact your bank and ask to speak to the Manager, which I know some of you have already done.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: dagwood on September 06, 2013, 19:53:13 PM
Quote from: fifi on August 29, 2013, 10:13:09 AM
The Voice magazine has an article this month written by Sabrina Willians from Canary Admin Services. The paper is online if anyone wants to read the full article. http://thevoice-fuerteventura.com/online-issue (http://thevoice-fuerteventura.com/online-issue)

In it she also recommends contacting the Banks Ombudsman. (See last link that I have put on my previous post). The Bank has to issue a response to them within four months and the final report may be used in court if it determines the floor clause to be abusive. First step recommended before this is to contact your bank and ask to speak to the Manager, which I know some of you have already done.
Make sure to have a witnes with you and if they speak spanish all the better. Better still if they understand spanish and only listen. 
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on October 13, 2013, 14:17:13 PM
Hi just to keep everyone updated.

White-Baos have sent a letter to Sol Bank left it the required 8 weeks for them to reply and nothing so they have advised only way forward is to take Sol- bank to court and fees look like about 2K-3K plus the banks costs if we lose - I am happy to join a group if anyone wants to bring a group claim

Regards 
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on October 15, 2013, 08:17:36 AM
Hi Sarah.
In the same situation but just waiting for the last 10 days of the 8 week period from solbank.
Would be happy to join forces.
Please contact me.
Thanks
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on October 15, 2013, 08:24:38 AM
Hi Con Air

Will let White Baos know there are 2 off us as I have not replied to them yet and see if they are willing to do a joint claim then we can see if there are any others.

Regards

Sarah
Title: mortgage rip off
Post by: antique1 on December 05, 2013, 17:06:05 PM
Looks like BBVA have been backed into a corner now:
http://www.rdtabogados.co.uk/news/news.aspx (http://www.rdtabogados.co.uk/news/news.aspx)
Lets hope the rest have to follow suit.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on December 05, 2013, 17:25:58 PM
I think to start, we who have Solbank mortgages should e-mail the Bank and request that the floor clause be removed or otherwise we will take joint legal action.  We would need to co-ordinate this approach so any ideas would be helpful
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: antique1 on December 06, 2013, 10:48:37 AM
I agree - we are with Solbank and I have been in regular contact with their Caleta branch about this, but their reply has been consistent in that they won't be removing the floor limit clause. Do you know how many of us there are?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on December 06, 2013, 14:24:53 PM
Does this grievance get resolved at a local level.
Should we be focusing on the head office?
I was certainly aware of the clause when taking out my mortgage.what I wasn't aware of was it had been deemed an unfair banking practice.
I don't think Solbanks argument that we knew about it holds much water , as they were fully aware that it's legality was some what doubtful.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on December 07, 2013, 13:54:16 PM
Quote from: TheCooler on December 06, 2013, 14:24:53 PM
Does this grievance get resolved at a local level.
Should we be focusing on the head office?
I was certainly aware of the clause when taking out my mortgage.what I wasn't aware of was it had been deemed an unfair banking practice.
I don't think Solbanks argument that we knew about it holds much water , as they were fully aware that it's legality was some what doubtful.

I think starting with the local branch would be best .  They will send it on to their head office anyway (Last time I queried it they did and I was informed that they were not going to modify the floor clause).  I wonder just how many of forum members have a mortgage with Solbank in Caleta  Perhaps if we got that sorted we could coordinate an e mail blitz and take it from there.   I am willing to collate mortgage holders if anyone wants to PM me on michael.hexmm@gmail.com.  We could draw up a generic e-mail for all to use for their own particular details.  Any alternate ideas would be most welcome

Michael
Title: mortgage rip off
Post by: antique1 on December 11, 2013, 12:35:46 PM
Michael,
I've emailed you - lets see if we can collectively get anywhere.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on December 11, 2013, 13:06:44 PM
Thanks antique1. Email has not come through just yet but when it does I will get back to you
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on December 12, 2013, 20:52:14 PM
I have been to the bank today at their request they have offered to reduce my floor limit to 2.5

They said unlike other banks that have been told to remove them ours are legal as they are written into the the deeds signed at the notary and are not therefore abusive

Any one else been approached
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on December 12, 2013, 23:29:28 PM
Hi sarah1312

Well that's a great start to getting Solbank to comply with the Courts as they have resolutely refused to even consider any responsibility on their part up to now.  Mind you they are still about 1% over what should be payable so the ball is in your court so to speak.  I would push them for more but that would be me.  Best of luck and well done

Michael
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on December 13, 2013, 08:21:55 AM
Yes nothing in writing but they want to prepare new docs if we agree I need to check out the figures as it did not reduce as much as I expected so will email bank today and will try for 2%

I am sure it will not be entered as a floor clause this time I think they are either offering Euro bor plus 2.5 but it still better than the 4.25 I am currently paying

Will keep you posted
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on December 13, 2013, 08:32:14 AM
Well done Sarah.

Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on January 14, 2014, 13:00:28 PM
Just to say I have been to bank could not get them under 2.5% as none of the cases won in court to date that I have read to date have been awarded back payments I decided to get in now rather than wait until a precedent is set when someone final takes them to court so I have signed up for that deal its still a floor clause and we did not havr to go to notary as I had expected so really it is just  deal between myself and bank BUT it has stopped my leagal claim so I presume thats what they will do with anyone who starts proceedings against them very clever really as this way it could take years before anyone takes them on

Regards
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on February 12, 2014, 15:37:34 PM
Does anybody know of any further legal cases and their outcomes regarding the floor clauses.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on February 13, 2014, 06:58:08 AM
Hi conair. Did not hear of any new developments regarding Court judgements. I am going to fill out the complaints form and hand it in to Solbank when I am there in April   Have you sent in a form? 
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on February 13, 2014, 17:33:20 PM
I haven't filled out a complaints form . In light of Sarah's reduction I wrote 3 weeks ago to Martina , I mentioned that I had heard that they had reduced one collar restriction & would they re-consider reducing mine in line with this.
I received a reply a week later in Spanish from customer services , not the atlantico branch,refusing my request.
My only option available now is legal action ,if I wish to see a reduction.
I am out in April and will make a decision then.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on December 07, 2014, 13:19:00 PM
http://www.cabildofuer.es/portal/p_14_final_Distribuidor_2.jsp?seccion=s_fnot_d4_v1.jsp&contenido=6319&tipo=8&nivel=1400&codResi=1&language=es&codMenu=11

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cabildofuer.es%2Fportal%2Fp_14_final_Distribuidor_2.jsp%3Fseccion%3Ds_fnot_d4_v1.jsp%26contenido%3D6319%26tipo%3D8%26nivel%3D1400%26codResi%3D1%26language%3Des%26codMenu%3D11&edit-text=&act=url
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on December 07, 2014, 21:55:57 PM
Thanks fifi for your post.   I am wondering where I can contact the local office or should I go through a local solicitor

Michael
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on December 07, 2014, 22:37:27 PM
Hi Michael, to be honest I havent kept up to speed on what is happening with the ground clauses because I had a break from the Forum for a while. I found this article when I was trying to catch up on some of the subjects that I was interested in and posted it here for those who I knew were interested. As far as I can remember ADICAE were representing groups of people of five or more.   I havent read up on the other organisation yet so know nothing about them. Do you speak Spanish? If you do I would get in touch with the Cabildo and ask for some more information and send them the link so they know what you are referring to.  It might be cheaper to use one of the Consumer organisations like Adicae or the other one mentioned if they are representing groups of people rather than using a Lawyer but I do not know for sure. I think from memory that you are Caleta based. If you dont speak Spanish perhaps Captain Sensibles son or Annette from Woodside tradings son might be able to translate for you if you asked them. The best of luck. :)

PS. Sorry you asked me for an address. I dont know the address Michael but I am sure if you PM  either Captain Sensible or Admin they will be able to help you. Send the link so you get the right office.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on December 07, 2014, 22:57:57 PM
Hi Michael, I had a quick Google. OIICU is the Consumer association in Fuerteventura. http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/966590/0/
Translated version.... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.20minutos.es%2Fnoticia%2F966590%2F0%2F&edit-text=&act=url
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on December 14, 2014, 18:34:50 PM
Bank in Canaries rapped by court for 'abusive' mortgage conditions
The war on banks over their unfair mortgage conditions continues to produce victories for customers, this time in Las Palmas, where judges have ruled that the imposition by a local bank of a so-called 'floor clause' was an abuse of its position.

(http://webimg.eu/artikel/44274-1418378159-1000052.jpg)



Las Palmas - 12.12.2014 - The court ruled this week that a home-loan contract between the Caja Rural bank and a client in which the lowest interest rate the latter could pay was 5% was "unfair". Judges ordered it to repay the customer over 10,000 euros in excess payments and slammed the bank for not passing on the benefits of the downward trend in interest rates in force at the time the mortgage was taken out in 2010. In a hard-hitting judgement, the court accused Caja Rural of a "lack of transparency" in its floor clause practices, which it said were "obscure" and placed borrowers at a serous disadvantage. The ruling is the latest in a long line of decisions that have gone against banks in the Canaries for inserting minimum rate clauses in loan agreements.





Island connections article.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: ocart on December 14, 2014, 22:14:30 PM
Thanks again fifi  The banks will have to bite the bullet on this thing eventually but it will probably be long and drawn out. 

Michal
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: steveDeb on March 25, 2016, 18:38:41 PM
Solbank  mortgage, this week I have been offered a 1.65 per cent fixed mortgage free of charge to replace my variable
mortgage with which currently has a 2 percent floor rate. In my view Why am I been offered a fixed rate mortgage out of the blue.

A couple of years ago I got the floor rate reduced to 4 percent then last year asked the floor rate be reduced to 2 percent  on both occasion it was reduced with out charge just for going into Solbank and asking .

I am now looking for a draft letter to claim all the years of back interest from the illegal floor rates. . Has any
One managed to claim back over paid interest yet??????
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: decho on March 26, 2016, 07:43:51 AM
Quote from: steveDeb on March 25, 2016, 18:38:41 PM
Solbank  mortgage, this week I have been offered a 1.65 per cent fixed mortgage free of charge to replace my variable
mortgage with which currently has a 2 percent floor rate. In my view Why am I been offered a fixed rate mortgage out of the blue.

A couple of years ago I got the floor rate reduced to 4 percent then last year asked the floor rate be reduced to 2 percent  on both occasion it was reduced with out charge just for going into Solbank and asking .

I am now looking for a draft letter to claim all the years of back interest from the illegal floor rates. . Has any
One managed to claim back over paid interest yet??????

I reckon this is a bigger scandal than PPI in the UK and if claims ARE successful will do serious damage to the banks possibly bringing them to their knees...and I wonder if the Spanish Government will bail them out. The costs must be HUGE!
So I doubt they are going to make it easy....
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on April 18, 2016, 23:47:08 PM

Next Shoe to Drop on Spanish Banks
by Don Quijones • April 10, 2016   
Share on FacebookTweet about this on TwitterShare on LinkedInShare on Google+Share on RedditPrint this pageEmail this to someone
“The mortgage ‘floor clauses` are a fraud.”
By Don Quijones, Spain & Mexico, editor at WOLF STREET.

Thursday, April 7, 2016, could go down in history as a great day for Spanish mortgage holders and a very grim one for many Spanish banks, thanks to a new ruling that the so-called mortgage floor-clauses that were unleashed across the whole financial sector in 2009 are abusive (but not illegal) and lack transparency.

These floor clauses set a minimum interest rate â€" typically of between 3% and 4.5% â€" for variable-rate mortgages, even if the Euribor drops far below that figure. In other words, the mortgages are only really variable in one direction: upwards!

Following the latest ruling, the banks named in the suit must reimburse clients all the money they`ve surreptitiously overcharged them since May 2013. And if they want to continue applying floor clauses in the future, the banks must do so in an open and transparent manner, which pretty much defeats the purpose, since if banks were completely up front about the inclusion of floor clauses in their contracts and what that actually means to the mortgage holder, no one in their right mind would accept them.

Thursday`s ruling comes on the heels of a similar sentence by Spain`s Supreme Court in October 2013. But whereas the Supreme Court ruling applied to just three banks, the new one applies to almost all of them. It is also the first time that such a large class action suit, with over 15,000 claimants, has been successful. It is now broadly assumed â€" meaning by everyone except the banks and their lawyers â€" that the ruling has set a legal precedent that should now apply to all of the 2.5 million mortgage holders affected by the abusive (but not illegal) practice.

“The banking system is going to resist, but we can tell every client not to pay a single euro more to the banks,” warned Manuel Pardos, the president of the Spanish Association of Consumers and Users of Banks, Saving Banks, Insurance and Financial Products (Adicae), the driving force behind the legal battle to ban floor clauses.

“The floor clauses are a fraud,” he added, but given that they bring in a huge amount of money, some of the banks “will try to hold onto them as long as they can.”

True to form, Catalonia-based Banc de Sabadell, the only major Spanish bank to continue using floor clauses in its mortgages, has already announced its intention to appeal the ruling, claiming that the clauses in their contracts that outline the impact of interest-rate floors are “clear-cut.” In recent months the bank has been pressuring its mortgage customers to sign a “pact of silence,” by which the customers, knowingly or not, pledge never to speak publicly about the conditions of their mortgage â€" not even to their lawyers â€" and in return the bank removes the floor clause from the mortgage, without reimbursing a single cent of what it owes.



Sabadell, along with 40 other Spanish banks, has good reason to be concerned about the new ruling. According to Fernando Herrero, the general secretary of Adicae, the floor clauses have cost the average user “some â,¬2,000 per year,” meaning the banks will have to pay back “some billions” to customers.

The financial consultancy firm Analistas Financieros Internacionales (AFI) tried to put a more precise figure on it. The amount they came up with was â,¬5.26 billion. But that`s only going back to May 2013, when Spain`s Supreme Court changed the law, effectively banning the current use of floor clauses. At the time, the court argued that the law couldn`t be applied retroactively to 2009, when the banks began introducing the clauses, since it would potentially cripple their finances.

The latest ruling adopts the same reasoning, but not everybody agrees.

Most importantly, the European Commission believes that the refunds should extend all the way back to the first mortgage payments, the rationale being that if a clause is declared void, “it is so from its origin.” On April 26, the European Court of Justice is scheduled to rule on the matter. If it rules in favor of applying the law retroactively, the banks will end up owing many more billions. AFI`s estimate is â,¬4.47 billion, but it could be a lot more.

The fallout is already having a serious impact on balance sheets as some â€" but not all â€" banks try to provision for the big payback. Last year, two of Spain`s biggest banks, Bankia and Caixabank, reported declines in a key profit metric when they stopped applying the interest-rate floors.

For its part, Banco Popular, Spain`s sixth biggest bank, announced 2015 earnings of â,¬105 million, 68% down from the previous year, after having provisioned â,¬350 million to cover interest payment refunds for over 100,000 customers. Without the floor clause in its mortgages with which to gouge its customers, the bank is expected to earn â,¬80 million less on its margins per year, every year from now on.

The same goes for all the other banks â€" with the exception of the one bank that refused to apply floor clauses to its mortgages, Bankinter, and Santander, which stopped using them straight after the 2013 ruling. In a delicious irony, all the other banks that continued to apply them will now have to learn to survive without the one mechanism that protected them from the profit-shrinking effects of the ECB`s negative interest rate policies  â€" just when the Euribor goes negative!

For 2016 alone the disappearance of the floor clause is expected to set the banks back over â,¬2 billion in margins, followed by a further â,¬4 billion between 2017 and 2019. Whether they are ready to adapt to this new reality depends on two key factors: the ruling adopted by the European Court of Justice, on April 26; and the extent to which the banks have provisioned for the day after.

The bank most at risk is Banc de Sabadell, according to analysts at Bankinter. It has apparently done less than most other banks to provision its exposure.

If there are casualties along the way, as the Spanish financial daily Expansión points out, the floor-clause drama could end up providing the perfect pretext for massively consolidating Spain`s banking sector, a long-cherished goal of both the ECB and Europe`s biggest financial institutions. As such, the biggest winners will end up being Europe`s top-tier banks, in particular Santander, Spain`s only Systemically Important Financial Institution. No doubt, the Spanish taxpayer will be on hand to fill any balance-sheet holes.


Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: paul and sue on April 19, 2016, 15:40:31 PM
We have been following this article with interest for months now, 2 weeks ago we received an email from Solbank offering us a fixed rate mortgage of 3% for the remainder of our term. Having read these messages we contacted Solbank and asked why we were being offered 3% fixed and other people had been offered fixed rates with a lower percentage than that. We were advised by the Bank that it depended on the amount left outstanding and the amount of years left to pay ! Please does anyone have any thoughts on this ? Thanks Paul and Sue
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on April 19, 2016, 17:37:51 PM
 It seems that there are lower mortgage prices if you agree to take out insurance policies etc with the bank. I guess if you are offered a Mortgage ask to see the small print. Often the Subrogacion fee (fee for changing mortgage provider in the future ) can vary greatly too so worth having a look in detail at everything and shop around for the best deal.

This is an article about the variation in fixed prices with a Bankiter mortgage which may throw a little light on the subject Paul and Sue. It is also possible to get your Lawyer to negotiate a good deal for you with the Banks and sometimes get certain charges like opening fees dropped.

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.ie&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.canarias7.es/articulo.cfm%3Fid%3D416330&usg=ALkJrhgREQShOTag6LIuBfguznwXA3e-Sg
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on April 19, 2016, 22:06:51 PM
Another little update here if anyone would like to see what Adicae (The Consumer association for Banking) have to say on the current offers being made by the banks. https://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afectadosclausulasuelo.org%2Fofertas-bancos.php&edit-text=&act=url

The main website in Spanish.http://www.afectadosclausulasuelo.org/ Clicking on the Icons brings you to the various sections .

In one section it shows details of all of the cases won against various banks and the outcome so there may be something worth having a look at if anyone is interested in reading it.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on April 20, 2016, 09:51:13 AM
Quote from: paul and sue on April 19, 2016, 15:40:31 PM
We have been following this article with interest for months now, 2 weeks ago we received an email from Solbank offering us a fixed rate mortgage of 3% for the remainder of our term. Having read these messages we contacted Solbank and asked why we were being offered 3% fixed and other people had been offered fixed rates with a lower percentage than that. We were advised by the Bank that it depended on the amount left outstanding and the amount of years left to pay ! Please does anyone have any thoughts on this ? Thanks Paul and Sue

Was over in March , and popped into Solbanks Atlantico branch to get a replacement card. I was taken aside and offered a rate 4% for the life of the term. I refused this offer.
The cashier had a list of names she was due to contact.
I intend to sit tight,& watch how this plays out over the coming months, before deciding on what course of action to take.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on May 03, 2016, 10:47:39 AM
Another update on the subject of Floor clauses.

http://spanishnewstoday.com/spanish-banks-await-eu-interest-rate-floor-clause-ruling_74383-a.html?Banner=56
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: fifi on July 13, 2016, 18:49:16 PM
EU court adviser offers relief for Spanish banks on mortgage floors


(Reuters) - The European Court of Justice advocate general on Wednesday said a Spanish court ruling capping banks' liabilities for so-called floor clauses in mortgage contracts was right, offering a relief for banks which had feared multi-million euros compensations.

The European court still has to issue a ruling on the issue but it generally follows the recommendations of its adviser.

Shares in several Spanish banks which still have the clauses in their mortgage contracts, including Liberbank, Banco Popular, Sabadell and Caixabank, rose after the adviser's recommendations were made public.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on September 07, 2016, 10:38:37 AM
Has anybody successfully had any money refunded by solbank bancosabadell in view of the mortgage floor clauses if so which lawyers did they use.
Thanks.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on February 02, 2017, 15:15:55 PM
Just an Update I have been contacted by a company Leyland CC (must have got my details from White Bios??) whom I used to start my claim to see if I want them to reclaim my money from the illegal floor clause!!!

Has anyone actually managed to get a refund?

This company are just like the PPI companies in the UK they want 25 to 28% BUT when I told her we had already signed something in the bank and had my rate reduced she was not daunted she told me unless we went to the Notary it was not legal (we did not) I have therefore just contacted the bank and copied in her letter asking them if they are willing to refund this money and if not I am going to use this company I thought I may as well try myself 1st but if not I am going with them 28% or not its no win no claim so I am not going to lose anything  Have pasted the email she sent below

Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on February 02, 2017, 15:18:55 PM
Sorry it wont let me cut and paste the letter but this is the company

www.lexland.es
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on February 02, 2017, 15:25:58 PM
WOW that was quick just had following reply from the bank
Good afternoon,

I am afraid but we can not accept this mail as you are requesting. You have to put your self in contact with the customer services in the bank´s web or personally here in the branch with a writing complain and original signature.

email to contact:  Sac@bancsabadell.com

best regards
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: jill tie on February 20, 2017, 08:30:49 AM
Hi Sarah,

I wouldn't entertain using a 3rd party.  This forum will probable be your best source of information.
Not sure of your personal circumstance but on a 108,000 euro mortgage Ive been told the claim
could be approx 10K (25 years taken out in 2005).  So the thought of giving 2800 euro to someone
else does't appeal to me.  Good luck
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Johnrgby2 on February 20, 2017, 08:37:37 AM
Quote from: jill tie on February 20, 2017, 08:30:49 AM
Hi Sarah,

I wouldn't entertain using a 3rd party.  This forum will probable be your best source of information.
Not sure of your personal circumstance but on a 108,000 euro mortgage Ive been told the claim
could be approx 10K (25 years taken out in 2005).  So the thought of giving 2800 euro to someone
else does't appeal to me.  Good luck

Jill
it is 28% and about in line with what The Shysters, {Sorry Solicitors} were charging in The UK 8/9 years ago.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on February 20, 2017, 12:09:50 PM
Hi
Solbank are now offering to scrap the floor clauses with immeadiate effect but want you to sign away any compensation claim.Has any body else been told the same or has anybody managed to geta anywhere nearer a refund.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Windermeregolfer on February 20, 2017, 12:27:30 PM
Not that it affects us,  but there is at least one other thread running on this subject -

http://www.fuerteventura-forum.com/index.php?topic=22489.0 

-so check those out as well
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: jill tie on February 21, 2017, 15:28:33 PM
Quote from: conair on February 20, 2017, 12:09:50 PM
Hi
Solbank are now offering to scrap the floor clauses with immeadiate effect but want you to sign away any compensation claim.Has any body else been told the same or has anybody managed to geta anywhere nearer a refund.

I was asked to sign away in exchange for the floor clause being removed last May.   I refused and after a couple of months it was removed anyway.  Back then I thought it was totally wrong of the bank and told them so.  Now after the courts ruling if the banks are still asking people to sign away their rights then its bordering on criminal. 

If the banks have no more appeals then they must comply.  I think its will people will start getting offers soon.  Probable reduce your mortgage rather than a refund as I don't think many of the banks can afford so many large payouts.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on February 21, 2017, 19:06:39 PM
Visted Solbank Caleta today to speak to the manager, after waiting in a queue for 30 minutes I was advised that there was updates, over the weekend to the process that the manager had not had the chance to look at as yesterday was a holiday. I have a further meeting tomorrow morning giving her the chance to fully understand the new process, and she will also complete a claim form when I am in the office.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on February 21, 2017, 22:17:16 PM
http://www.rdtabogados.co.uk/mortgage-cap-floor-clauses/
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on February 22, 2017, 11:33:41 AM
Further update

Went in to see the manager at Solbank Caleta today, had to fill in a claims form (no official forms) so had to borrow a piece of paper and a pen. Wanted my mortgage details and an official signature, stamped and sent off to their customers service department. I asked for the floor clause to be removed instantly but was told I would have to wait to see what the customer service department said :o

She did state that's the claim only went back to 2013.....we will see what develops!
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on April 25, 2017, 12:03:37 PM
Has any body had any official response from solbank having formally asked for a refund of there mortgage floor over charges.?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on April 25, 2017, 12:46:53 PM
Hi Conair
I was going to ask the same question went into bank about 3 months ago and was told it had to be put in writing did as ask went back to bank they stamped my letter and said it had to go off to their SAC dept so as I had there email address I also scanned a copy in and sent one direct Chased SAC about 3 weeks later received a letter to say they had 8 weeks to deal with Complaints - left it 8 weeks chased again - no record of my letter either from me or the bank sent again and had a reply to say floor clauses where now being dealt with in the branch booked an appointment and went in to see Martina about 10 days ago again no record of my letter so again gave her a copy she said completely different department now deals with these claims and she has logged it and sent it off to them implied we would have an offer in a couple of days chased last week as no reply she says it is being dealt with as urgent chased again today and said if no reply by 5/5 I want a copy of the mortgage and we will engage a solicitor I have found one that charges 10%   
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Captain Sensible on April 25, 2017, 20:38:02 PM
I have a lawyer working on my case against Solbank, and it went to the court in Puerto del Rosario in November.  We won the case but the Banco Sabadell Head Office are dragging things on and haven't paid out. 
I refused to sign the letter that Solbank offered me last year - to agree not to make a future claim against them and to switch from a variable rate to a fixed rate mortgage.  It would have saved me a miserly 16â,¬ a month, when in fact they must owe me a few thousand.
The next stage is to get a Gestor to work out a precise amount I am owed - something you would expect the bank to be legally bound to work out and then pay ou.
I will pursue this matter for as long as it takes.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: raye on April 26, 2017, 08:53:30 AM
I went into Banco Popular in Caleta 2 weeks' ago and completed/signed a form which they stamped/authorised,sent to their Head Office and gave me a copy. Apparently they have up to 3 months to get back to me, so will see what happens.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on April 26, 2017, 13:22:44 PM
Amazing captain sensible that they have still not paid you after going to court.What does your lawyer or legal advisor suggest you do to make them comply with the ruling.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Captain Sensible on April 27, 2017, 08:43:05 AM
The banks are just stalling.  My lawyer sent them emails but didn't get a reply.  Eventually someone got back to him and said their computer had crashed and they were having to use their own personal computer!  What rubbish!  >:(
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: scorpio1966 on April 28, 2017, 14:37:39 PM
Hi all,
can anyone recommend a lawyer to deal with the mortgage clause reclaim please.
we have been to solbank in person .
wrote the letter ,got the stamp,got the understanding smile and nods but got no response.
thanks scorpio
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: jill tie on April 29, 2017, 08:56:00 AM
Quote from: Captain Sensible on April 25, 2017, 20:38:02 PM
I have a lawyer working on my case against Solbank, and it went to the court in Puerto del Rosario in November.  We won the case but the Banco Sabadell Head Office are dragging things on and haven't paid out. 
I refused to sign the letter that Solbank offered me last year - to agree not to make a future claim against them and to switch from a variable rate to a fixed rate mortgage.  It would have saved me a miserly 16â,¬ a month, when in fact they must owe me a few thousand.
The next stage is to get a Gestor to work out a precise amount I am owed - something you would expect the bank to be legally bound to work out and then pay ou.
I will pursue this matter for as long as it takes.

Hi Captain,

You seem to have gone further than most with this.  If this were in the UK you could instruct bailiffs to retrieve goods.  Are there such things as bailiffs in Spain?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on April 29, 2017, 18:12:56 PM
Hi Sean and Captain
Sean is this someone you are recomending? and if so what do they charge and Captain who did you use? again was it a big charge I cant beleive you won your case and they have not paid you the rest of us have no chance

I have given Martina a final date of this Friday to get  a reply to my complaint or I am passing it to a solicitor so any recommendations with an idea of charges more than welcome 
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: spitfire58 on April 30, 2017, 10:14:52 AM
Quote from: Séan J. on April 29, 2017, 09:07:37 AM

Hi Sean,
Had a look at your link. I am somewhat concerned !! These (well Daniel & Louise) were the people we dealt with for our purchase. Found them to be fine & all went smoothly enough but now see them in a different place & company name !!!! Maybe it's just me but seems rather odd











 







BUFETE GONZALEZ SEGURA
C/ Secundino Alonso, 75 oficina 6
35600 PUERTO DEL ROSARIO
FUERTEVENTURA
Teléfono: (+34) 928 858712
Fax: (+34) 928 530287
E-mail:abogados@bufetegonzalezsegura.com
www.bufetegonzalezsegura.com
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: jill tie on April 30, 2017, 10:17:47 AM
Quote from: Séan J. on April 30, 2017, 07:29:08 AM
Hi Sarah,

Ms.Pilar is claiming it back for us â,¬600.00 all in.we have been with her since 2005 never had any problems,

Kateryna is her assistant and speaks perfect English,
hope this helps. 

Séan J.

Can you not also claim back the cost of the solicitor?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Captain Sensible on June 25, 2017, 19:13:32 PM
Finally, I have had a pay out from Solbank :D.  I signed last Wednesday.  It has taken 8 months, the use of a lawyer and a gestor, and several court cases to prise out the money that the bank should have paid out automatically ::).
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: spitfire58 on June 25, 2017, 21:17:16 PM
Quote from: Captain Sensible on June 25, 2017, 19:13:32 PM
Finally, I have had a pay out from Solbank :D.  I signed last Wednesday.  It has taken 8 months, the use of a lawyer and a gestor, and several court cases to prise out the money that the bank should have paid out automatically ::).

Glad to hear it for you. With all the court cases etc was it financially worth it. My thinking being that the longer they (banks) drag it out & the more they make it cost the aggrieved party, the more people will say it's not worth it !!
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: conair on June 28, 2017, 07:54:28 AM
Happy to see someone who has been paid out.
Did your legal costs get paid by the bank and your pther costs.
Also were your mortgage setting up fees returned and were you compensated for the interest on your money in any form.
Sorry to enquire but hope you dont mind.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: raye on June 30, 2017, 16:31:50 PM
Hi Captain, same questions, especially which Lawyer you used, as i am getting the run around from Banco Popular despite doing what they initially requested. Cheers
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on June 30, 2017, 22:47:26 PM
I contacted Sabadell last week and was given an offer.... however I have refused it, requested a breakdown and threatened legal action. I am awaiting a new offer and will update when this happens
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: bigB on July 01, 2017, 22:21:07 PM
When did you put in your claim firefly? I claimed on April 24th having took out my 110k mortgage in August 2006.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on July 02, 2017, 09:58:58 AM
Quote from: F1REFLY999 on June 30, 2017, 22:47:26 PM
I contacted Sabadell last week and was given an offer.... however I have refused it, requested a breakdown and threatened legal action. I am awaiting a new offer and will update when this happens
I fear this is the route, that i will have to go down, to get a satisfactory outcome to this situation.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Villan on July 09, 2017, 22:31:44 PM
Quote from: F1REFLY999 on June 30, 2017, 22:47:26 PM
I contacted Sabadell last week and was given an offer.... however I have refused it, requested a breakdown and threatened legal action. I am awaiting a new offer and will update when this happens
I have also received a low offer which was disguised with  a choice of mortgage differential rate and associated savings which is misleading. Refused.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Villan on July 11, 2017, 16:32:19 PM
Now had a formal rejection from Sabadell for my request for reimbursement of certain mortgage set up expenses as referred to by the Spanish Supreme Court Decree of 23/12/2016.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: seane on July 31, 2017, 14:41:10 PM
Just back from holidays in Corralejo  I went into bankia and the organised a complete refund of the overcharging and interest very helpful very polite very friendly so I went down to solbank and the were the complete opposite so I now have a solicitor working for me in legal action to get the money back. I wish everyone good luck and don't give up. 
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: sarah1312 on August 08, 2017, 08:27:52 AM
Update I received an offer 3 weeks ago accepted and returned completed form to Martina and my money is in the bank today
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: F1REFLY999 on August 08, 2017, 20:50:22 PM
Yes we have also been settled thanks to Martina.
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: Villan on August 08, 2017, 22:28:18 PM
Quote from: F1REFLY999 on August 08, 2017, 20:50:22 PM
Yes we have also been settled thanks to Martina.

Did you receive an improved offer or did you accept a breakdown of their original offer?
Title: Re: mortgage rip off
Post by: TheCooler on August 14, 2017, 19:34:44 PM
We refused their original offer.
I put in a counter offer requesting compensation for over payments.
They came back with an improved fixed term interest rate that took into account the overpayments.
This i have accepted.