Author Topic: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit  (Read 16022 times)

Offline dagwood

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #360 on: March 18, 2018, 20:52:25 pm »

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #361 on: March 18, 2018, 21:26:04 pm »
I dont really know what im doing

we know

Offline dagwood

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #362 on: March 19, 2018, 00:16:09 am »
One big happy family

Brexit Committee chairman denies trying to keep Britain in the EU
18/03/2018 - 01:39

The chairman of a committee at war over Brexit has denied trying to use it to keep Britain in the European Union indefinitely.

Bitter divisions erupted after Leave supporters refused to back a report recommending extending the transition period and the exit date if necessary.

Tory and DUP MPs forced the Exiting the EU Committee to publish rival recommendations within the official text that was backed by the majority of members.

Prominent Conservative Jacob Rees-Mogg attacked the "high priests of Remain" for pushing through a "partisan" report.

But Labour committee chairman Hilary Benn, a Remain supporter, denied trying to delay Brexit indefinitely.

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #363 on: March 19, 2018, 00:31:22 am »
I really hope UK doesnt go ahead wth brexit,I understand It was nothing to do with me but I am afraid of the outcome like many other EU states, i really need you UK guys and gals to help me out here, im having a tough time coming to terms with all this reality stuff

we know

Offline dagwood

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #364 on: March 19, 2018, 01:14:28 am »
Thanks Viva for helping me get this subject up and running again.
As there is no thanks button I have to post it.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #365 on: March 22, 2018, 09:18:43 am »
Looks like the Fishing community is going to be shafted.

Lean times ahead for cod 'n chips lovers. It will all be heading to France.


Offline MalT

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #366 on: March 22, 2018, 14:41:11 pm »
So many promises made for Brexit, that were never going to be delivered on! Reality check time for those who thought this would be a straightforward process. Wasn’t impressed with way EU was run, but then seems we can’t govern ourselves any better. Lies coming back to put our people on the dole, nobody voted for that ☹️

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #367 on: March 22, 2018, 14:54:56 pm »
Always knew that May would sacrifice someone at the altar of EU dominance. Should have walked away without bothering to try get a deal and let them chase us. They would have, it just needed some courage and determination in the face of EU pressure.... a bit more than May possesses sadly.

Offline MalT

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #368 on: March 22, 2018, 15:08:38 pm »
Walk away? Really? It was always going to end like this, a series of compromises and climb downs and a growing realisation that we are going to have pay a very heavy price for our ‘freedom’. If only people knew then what we know now, result would have been very different, still, need to make the best and secure best deal we can and try not to loose too many jobs

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #369 on: March 22, 2018, 15:33:59 pm »
Yes really. I always did know then what I know now. Always knew that looking for a deal would always mean compromise and climb downs. Always knew too that no UK government would walk away and particularly that Mays no deal is better than a bad deal was all bluff. Not sure where you get your information on job losses but I've heard things differently. Difference between the Guardian and Express maybe?.

I would still vote to leave whatever the cost as in the long run the UK will benefit as will it's citizens..

Offline dagwood

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #370 on: March 22, 2018, 17:19:36 pm »
Very decent I’vemovedalong of your French neighbors to undertake the printing of the new Blue passports.

Offline dagwood

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #371 on: March 22, 2018, 17:49:41 pm »
An article in todays FT

 
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   https://www.ft.com/content/a3111968-2cf4-11e8-9b4b-bc4b9f08f381

   Xavier Bettel has given us a wounding description of Brexit. As an EU member, the Luxembourg prime minister observed, Britain was forever asking for opt-outs. “Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”

There you have it. Mr Bettel captures precisely the abiding sense of superiority that persuades Britain it can stand above the rest of Europe alongside its recurring fear of being left behind.

Boris Johnson speaks of Brexit as a “liberation”. The foreign secretary is among those English nationalists who never step out of the nostalgic haze of victory in the second world war. Others were subjugated; Britain stood alone. Yet there Mr Johnson was in Brussels this week tipping his hat to the “defeated” in the hope of enlisting their support against Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Technically, Britain is not yet “out” of the EU, but the conclusion of a draft transition agreement with the remaining 27 members would take Theresa May’s government a stride closer to the exit. The prime minister is determined to walk through it in March 2019. Just to be sure, she has a fail-safe approach: to take just about any deal she is offered.

The story of the first phase of Article 50 negotiations was a procession of capitulations. British demands collided with European realities and Mrs May retreated at every turn. The second phase will be much the same except that, as the clock ticks faster, she will be even quicker to abandon her positions.

Only this month the prime minister set out at great length the opt-ins, concessions and exemptions she required of the EU27 in the post-Brexit world. Never mind. These “cake-and-eat” demands — segmenting the single market, privileged access for the City of London and bespoke customs arrangements — were made in the sure knowledge they will soon enough have to be abandoned.

Michel Barnier, the head of the commission’s negotiating team, has quite sensibly rested his position on the logic of Mrs May’s rejection of the single market and customs union and her refusal to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That leaves the only plausible trade arrangement as one akin to those enjoyed by Canada and South Korea. If Britain is willing to pay, it may also secure associate membership of a handful of EU agencies.

By the government’s own lights, this outcome falls far short of the national interest. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has demanded an accord covering financial services. Mrs May has other priorities. Politics must trump economics, and the interests of the Conservative party those of the nation. Supply chains, investment and jobs cannot be allowed to get in the way of her efforts to avoid a Tory rupture.

The timetable has room for only six months more of talks. Everything has to be wrapped up by November to allow time for ratification. The best that can be achieved in such a short period is a statement of a set of broad principles to shape the future relationship. Hammering out a workable economic arrangement will be left for the transition, which in turn will need to be extended.

For Mrs May, the vaguer the autumn accord the better. A fuzzy statement of intent will be sold as all things to all sides — to her party’s nationalists as a clean break with the wicked EU, and to pro-European Tories as the precursor to a close and strong relationship. Anything too specific and Mrs May would risk stirring rebellion in parliament.

Things could still go wrong. MPs could vote to stay in a customs union. The government’s reckless indifference to the impact of Brexit on the Northern Ireland peace settlement faces exposure. A draft agreement with the EU27 includes a commitment to avoid a hard border between the North and the Irish Republic. Mrs May has yet to say how this can be reconciled with a departure from the single market and customs union.

For hardline Brexiters, none of this matters. Mr Johnson dismisses the Irish border as akin to the boundary between two London boroughs. The likes of Mr Johnson hold the Brexit prize too important to be held hostage to peace and prosperity across the Irish Sea. They have their sights set on the supposed restoration of national sovereignty.

There is a snag. More, really, than a snag. The repatriation of sovereignty is in large measure a chimera. As Mr Putin has reminded us, Britain cannot banish the facts of interdependence. In any event, in order to reclaim this claimed sovereignty, the Brexiters must suppress the will of, well, the parliament they promise to empower. Most MPs, including those on the Tory side, think Brexit will be bad for Britain. So, incidentally, do a majority of cabinet ministers. At the very least they want to soften the blow. But they are told by the prime minister they must vote for the good of party before country.

Perhaps there is a precedent. I cannot recall it. When last did Britain’s elected representatives take a decision that they fully expected would make the nation poorer, less influential and less secure? The cynicism takes one’s breath away.

There is an answer. A prime minister of principle would offer a free vote. Parliament should be charged with mapping the contours of Britain’s future relationship with its own continent. MPs should also be empowered to put the terms to the people in a second referendum. That really would be taking back control. Strange that the self-appointed champions of parliamentary sovereignty argue otherwise.

philip.stephens@ft.com

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #372 on: March 22, 2018, 17:53:47 pm »
Very decent I’vemovedalong of your French neighbors to undertake the printing of the new Blue passports.

EU regulations of non bias to a UK company I'm afraid. And 50 million cheaper by all accounts.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 18:02:00 pm by Ivemovedon »

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #373 on: March 22, 2018, 22:38:49 pm »
the only people still crying about brexit didnt get a vote.

Offline beachlife

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #374 on: March 23, 2018, 10:31:41 am »
An article in todays FT

 
   Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
   https://www.ft.com/content/a3111968-2cf4-11e8-9b4b-bc4b9f08f381

   Xavier Bettel has given us a wounding description of Brexit. As an EU member, the Luxembourg prime minister observed, Britain was forever asking for opt-outs. “Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”

There you have it. Mr Bettel captures precisely the abiding sense of superiority that persuades Britain it can stand above the rest of Europe alongside its recurring fear of being left behind.

Boris Johnson speaks of Brexit as a “liberation”. The foreign secretary is among those English nationalists who never step out of the nostalgic haze of victory in the second world war. Others were subjugated; Britain stood alone. Yet there Mr Johnson was in Brussels this week tipping his hat to the “defeated” in the hope of enlisting their support against Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Technically, Britain is not yet “out” of the EU, but the conclusion of a draft transition agreement with the remaining 27 members would take Theresa May’s government a stride closer to the exit. The prime minister is determined to walk through it in March 2019. Just to be sure, she has a fail-safe approach: to take just about any deal she is offered.

The story of the first phase of Article 50 negotiations was a procession of capitulations. British demands collided with European realities and Mrs May retreated at every turn. The second phase will be much the same except that, as the clock ticks faster, she will be even quicker to abandon her positions.

Only this month the prime minister set out at great length the opt-ins, concessions and exemptions she required of the EU27 in the post-Brexit world. Never mind. These “cake-and-eat” demands — segmenting the single market, privileged access for the City of London and bespoke customs arrangements — were made in the sure knowledge they will soon enough have to be abandoned.

Michel Barnier, the head of the commission’s negotiating team, has quite sensibly rested his position on the logic of Mrs May’s rejection of the single market and customs union and her refusal to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That leaves the only plausible trade arrangement as one akin to those enjoyed by Canada and South Korea. If Britain is willing to pay, it may also secure associate membership of a handful of EU agencies.

By the government’s own lights, this outcome falls far short of the national interest. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has demanded an accord covering financial services. Mrs May has other priorities. Politics must trump economics, and the interests of the Conservative party those of the nation. Supply chains, investment and jobs cannot be allowed to get in the way of her efforts to avoid a Tory rupture.

The timetable has room for only six months more of talks. Everything has to be wrapped up by November to allow time for ratification. The best that can be achieved in such a short period is a statement of a set of broad principles to shape the future relationship. Hammering out a workable economic arrangement will be left for the transition, which in turn will need to be extended.

For Mrs May, the vaguer the autumn accord the better. A fuzzy statement of intent will be sold as all things to all sides — to her party’s nationalists as a clean break with the wicked EU, and to pro-European Tories as the precursor to a close and strong relationship. Anything too specific and Mrs May would risk stirring rebellion in parliament.

Things could still go wrong. MPs could vote to stay in a customs union. The government’s reckless indifference to the impact of Brexit on the Northern Ireland peace settlement faces exposure. A draft agreement with the EU27 includes a commitment to avoid a hard border between the North and the Irish Republic. Mrs May has yet to say how this can be reconciled with a departure from the single market and customs union.

For hardline Brexiters, none of this matters. Mr Johnson dismisses the Irish border as akin to the boundary between two London boroughs. The likes of Mr Johnson hold the Brexit prize too important to be held hostage to peace and prosperity across the Irish Sea. They have their sights set on the supposed restoration of national sovereignty.

There is a snag. More, really, than a snag. The repatriation of sovereignty is in large measure a chimera. As Mr Putin has reminded us, Britain cannot banish the facts of interdependence. In any event, in order to reclaim this claimed sovereignty, the Brexiters must suppress the will of, well, the parliament they promise to empower. Most MPs, including those on the Tory side, think Brexit will be bad for Britain. So, incidentally, do a majority of cabinet ministers. At the very least they want to soften the blow. But they are told by the prime minister they must vote for the good of party before country.

Perhaps there is a precedent. I cannot recall it. When last did Britain’s elected representatives take a decision that they fully expected would make the nation poorer, less influential and less secure? The cynicism takes one’s breath away.

There is an answer. A prime minister of principle would offer a free vote. Parliament should be charged with mapping the contours of Britain’s future relationship with its own continent. MPs should also be empowered to put the terms to the people in a second referendum. That really would be taking back control. Strange that the self-appointed champions of parliamentary sovereignty argue otherwise.

philip.stephens@ft.com

Jeez,I got told to be brief and concise!

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #375 on: March 23, 2018, 12:36:15 pm »
Jeez,I got told to be brief and concise!

hang on you dont understand, it is OK for dagwood to criticize you with his perry account but you absolutely cannot do the same back, no way, thats wayyyyyyyyyy out of order ;)

looking at the complete and utter disconsent other EU people think is OK to treat UK with. is it no wonder we wanted out ?

we where paying for them to enjoy the EU yet they hate us . . . . . . oh well, no more :D

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #376 on: March 24, 2018, 08:53:52 am »
Heard there could be a climb down on who processes the blue passports.

Shame if not as it would have been a good chance to let the EU know we will start to look after British interests above all others as from right now. Why quibble over a paltry £50m when we throw away billions ?. Could have sent a clear and important message at a time of heightened negotiations that we will not be messed with anymore.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #377 on: March 24, 2018, 09:10:54 am »
And to any argument that its against EU regulations to favour a home company. Just do what the French do when they don't like a particular directive...,.. Ignore it  ;)

Offline Johnrgby2

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #378 on: March 24, 2018, 09:37:54 am »
. Just do what the French do when they don't like a particular directive...,.. Ignore it  ;)

As do Italy Greece and most Eastern European countries, Spain however simply never bother to read them, so they cannot be accused of ignoring a directive.

Offline ashworth

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #379 on: March 24, 2018, 10:19:39 am »
Is there an EU pot hole policy. If there is the UK is ignoring it. Just been back for 6 days to the North West and pot holes on major roads are a disgrace with councils saying they have no money to repair them. Its like driving in the back lands of Africa. Hopefully all the extra zillions of pounds we are going to get from trade around the world once out of the EU might help to buy some road repair kits so that we can have roads like we have in Fuerteventura.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 10:21:18 am by ashworth »

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #380 on: March 24, 2018, 10:53:20 am »
Get the pot holes fixed with money saved on EU payments and a cut in Foreign Aid.

Highly unlikely we will ever get one but whats needed is a decent Government that can differentiate between what is a priority and what isn't.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #381 on: March 24, 2018, 10:54:08 am »
. Just do what the French do when they don't like a particular directive...,.. Ignore it  ;)

As do Italy Greece and most Eastern European countries, Spain however simply never bother to read them, so they cannot be accused of ignoring a directive.

I'll thank that post.

Offline Johnrgby2

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #382 on: March 24, 2018, 13:37:47 pm »
Is there an EU pot hole policy. If there is the UK is ignoring it. Just been back for 6 days to the North West and pot holes on major roads are a disgrace with councils saying they have no money to repair them. Its like driving in the back lands of Africa. Hopefully all the extra zillions of pounds we are going to get from trade around the world once out of the EU might help to buy some road repair kits so that we can have roads like we have in Fuerteventura.

Some years ago, maybe 5 when I lived in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire County Council decided to repair some of the many potholes around the county, and in order to prioritise them used fluorescent yellow spray paint to put circles around them, so the repair gangs would know which ones were to be repaired, a neighbour of mine a doctor in the local hospital got wind of this bought a couple of cans of paint and circled almost every pothole within 2 square mi;es of his home and they were filed in, howeve The GCC got wind of it, and threatened to prosecute him for vandalism,  a very short letter from his brother who is a solicitor stimied that idea. and he was bought more than a few pints on the back of that. :D

Offline MalT

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #383 on: March 24, 2018, 13:51:40 pm »
Regarding job losses, it was the guardian😊 better than relying on the daily mail or the sun in my opinion. Fact is only time will tell, every week it seems to get more complicated, pointless blaming May, whoever was in power was going to get royally screwed by the EU, exit simply wasn’t realistly thought through as everyone thought a no vote inevitable 😎

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #384 on: March 24, 2018, 14:59:13 pm »
Looks like it is just an opinion. May interest you to know that the Daily Mail has an estimated 31.1m monthly readers via print, PC and smart phone, the Sun has 28.8m and the Guardian 24.1m.

Easy to see then that the DM and Sun combined have around 60m readers per month in one form or another.

Of course you can blame May . She is Prime Minister of our country and has plenty of aces up her sleeve to use if she so wishes. The fact she doesn't tells me she is a remain Politician dressed up in Leave sheep's clothing. You can blame Cameron for the Brexit inertia post referendum. He gave it to the country then duly flounced out in a huff without ever putting in place a credible leave strategy. Left his successor holding the baby so to speak.

Offline MalT

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #385 on: March 24, 2018, 17:14:34 pm »
Quantity doesn’t often equate with quality, have you recently read those papers? Seriously misinformed with an agenda they beAt you over the head with😂 hardly a source of informed balanced opinion? Having said that, Mail does have good tv listing booklet 😂 I suspect leavers would blame whoever was negotiating as we obviously weren’t going to get out easily and untouched and had leave agenda was simply unrealistic

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #386 on: March 24, 2018, 18:54:35 pm »
Have you recently read those papers?

Yes...have you? And all newspapers have a political agenda. Including the Guardian.

Ps... Although I buy the sun for the racing pages on a saturday I also find their political stance a little more palatable than I would the Guardian. Horses for courses as they say.

And Mrs May seems to think negotiations are going swimmingly. You worry too much, calm down.  8)

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #387 on: March 24, 2018, 19:41:19 pm »
And just checked the Office for National Statistics Claim is that the unemployment rate of 4.3% is the lowest in 4 decades. Hmmmm...someones telling porkies. ;)

Offline spitfire58

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #388 on: March 24, 2018, 20:37:43 pm »
That’s because they have massaged so many figures to take numbers off the actual live register. Easy to manipulate figures when you are in power. It has been done for years but they now think the are so clever at it & we have been subject to manipulation for so long (we are just ignorant serfs after all) that we can’t/won’t see through it !!

Offline ashworth

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Re: Spain's Concerns Over Brexit
« Reply #389 on: March 25, 2018, 06:33:21 am »
What about the Pot Holes? If you can't manage your pot holes how can you run a country?