Author Topic: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?  (Read 1598 times)

Offline vivafuerte

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why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« on: June 12, 2018, 10:51:15 am »
is it because they gain more out of it than we do ?

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 11:15:10 am »
Of course they do.

They are worried they are going to have to tell the east European states, Italy and Greece the gravy train has ended and they have to get a grip of their own economies ( which may include FV ). Or alternatively hit the German , Belgian, Dutch and French taxpayers for a substantial increase to cover the costs. That should all go down well. Especially in Italy. ;)

Offline Johnrgby2

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 11:32:08 am »
Of course they do.

They are worried they are going to have to tell the east European states, Italy and Greece the gravy train has ended and they have to get a grip of their own economies ( which may include FV ). Or alternatively hit the German , Belgian, Dutch and French taxpayers for a substantial increase to cover the costs. That should all go down well. Especially in Italy. ;)

After brexit, all The EU has to do to balance the books is kick out Poland, The UK,s net contribution is almost the same as The Poles get in subsidies!

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 11:41:24 am »
I bet they wish they could just kick them out, they won't leave voluntarily. It's why the EU will never work...the have's soon get fed up with providing for the have not's.



Offline paully

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 13:49:57 pm »
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/economyandbusiness/28000-jobs-lost-in-high-street-massacre-and-a-staggering-40000-more-set-to-go-this-year/ar-AAyqO3d?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp


Another moronic quote without putting the full facts  ::)

  If you put together poor planning, bad management and changing shopping habits in the UK, then the broad headline is correct. Its called a market shake out. Nothing to do with Brexit either. Department stores, like House of Fraser and Debenhams are utter old hat, won`t be long before M & S decline further. Its all Primark these days and their stores are booming. But the bad management comes from too much expansion in the wrong places and locked in to long leases at silly money. That`s why they are all busy trying to get Landlords to settle for lower rents.Ditto the `Pound`empires. There is only so much demand for the bottom end of the market stuff, yet 2 went head to head, at huge cost. Also buying into expensive shopping areas at massive overheads, when clearly there was only ever going to be room for one.

    Have a look at how good Amazon is doing in the UK, for fashion keep and eye on the likes Asos and Boohoo, even buy shares in them. That will be a good investment. True if you don`t live in the UK you won`t really know whats going on and how trends change....Its been rather obvious for some time. We placed too much faith in the High Street and didn`t react quickly enough when it was obvious that we needed to. The Internet revolutionised how and when we buy but most of those going bust thought they could ignore it.....and they did.

    Yup that the truth
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 14:05:14 pm by paully »

Offline malabu

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 14:17:17 pm »
I don't understand why everyone in one way or another denies the fact that brexit has and will carry on having a major effect on the economy  in the UK and i am sure the rest of the EU, and no doubt the worst is still to come, we will eventually recover as we did after the last 2 world wars but to what degree of recovery remains to be seen, WHOS FAULT IS IT? everyone who voted in or out before we were told all the facts and the truth, i wonder how the vote would go now? in view of all the information that has been dragged kicking and screaming out of our politicians and representative in the EU, 
 

Offline Johnrgby2

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 14:20:53 pm »
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/economyandbusiness/28000-jobs-lost-in-high-street-massacre-and-a-staggering-40000-more-set-to-go-this-year/ar-AAyqO3d?li=AA54rU&ocid=iehp


Another moronic quote without putting the full facts  ::)

  If you put together poor planning, bad management and changing shopping habits in the UK, then the broad headline is correct. Its called a market shake out. Nothing to do with Brexit either. Department stores, like House of Fraser and Debenhams are utter old hat, won`t be long before M & S decline further. Its all Primark these days and their stores are booming. But the bad management comes from too much expansion in the wrong places and locked in to long leases at silly money. That`s why they are all busy trying to get Landlords to settle for lower rents.Ditto the `Pound`empires. There is only so much demand for the bottom end of the market stuff, yet 2 went head to head, at huge cost. Also buying into expensive shopping areas at massive overheads, when clearly there was only ever going to be room for one.

    Have a look at how good Amazon is doing in the UK, for fashion keep and eye on the likes Asos and Boohoo, even buy shares in them. That will be a good investment. True if you don`t live in the UK you won`t really know whats going on and how trends change....Its been rather obvious for some time. We placed too much faith in the High Street and didn`t react quickly enough when it was obvious that we needed to. The Internet revolutionised how and when we buy but most of those going bust thought they could ignore it.....and they did.

    Yup that the truth

You are very very close to the truth Paully, one of the last projects I took on before I left The UK was to prepare a report at their request, on one of The companies that have since fallen through, conclusion our conclusion was that in the 40odd years they had operated in The UK they had not learned that American shopping patterns do not work in the UK, they had expanded into areas without first researching them, were paying stupid rents on long term leases, had spent little or no monney in updating their stores, were virtually ignoring the competion from the likes of Amazon and Ebay, and were convinced that  they would survive come what may, when the report was presented we were told we were so far wide of the mark to make it unusable ::) now my strenght is/was food retailing, but one of my guys was ex Hamlyns, and knew a thing or two on retailing in their sector.

Offline paully

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 14:21:25 pm »
Believe what you want Malabu..plenty of Brexit doom to be had, especially on the click bait stuff. On the other hand have a read of some of the serious stuff thats available, from serious journalists and you get a different picture.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 14:45:00 pm »
It's always been the Europhile's weapon of choice to use any negative issues arising in the economy since the referendum to be pushed firmly at the door of brexit. I'm not a great lover of internet shopping but it's the way it's going and that's it. Don't move with the times and you fall by the wayside.

Look at the fortunes of BT at present. Shares are at the lowest they have ever been. Massive pension deficit and gradually decreasing revenues. They look like they will be taken head on by Amazon in the future with Premiership TV rights. A once all powerful telecoms giant now reduced to an also ran because they thought a slice of the Football action was more productive than doing what they were supposed to be good at, providing decent internet connections.  Bad management and bad decisions. Nothing to do with brexit. Just a scandalous lack of foresight by people paid to know and do a lot better.


Offline Swordy

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 20:18:50 pm »
I don't understand why everyone in one way or another denies the fact that brexit has and will carry on having a major effect on the economy  in the UK and i am sure the rest of the EU, and no doubt the worst is still to come, we will eventually recover as we did after the last 2 world wars but to what degree of recovery remains to be seen, WHOS FAULT IS IT? everyone who voted in or out before we were told all the facts and the truth, i wonder how the vote would go now? in view of all the information that has been dragged kicking and screaming out of our politicians and representative in the EU,

'in view of all the information that has been dragged kicking and screaming out of our politicians and representative in the EU'.

That's just it though. There was so much 'information' and predictions in the run up to the referendum that has since been proven to be propaganda (lies) that I myself now take everything with a huge pinch of salt. 


Offline malabu

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 20:22:52 pm »
Believe what you want Malabu..plenty of Brexit doom to be had, especially on the click bait stuff. On the other hand have a read of some of the serious stuff thats available, from serious journalists and you get a different picture.
Read the post, don't put your own spin on it, i did not say i believed anything what i said was i did not understand it


Offline ashworth

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 20:27:35 pm »
Believe what you want Malabu..plenty of Brexit doom to be had, especially on the click bait stuff. On the other hand have a read of some of the serious stuff thats available, from serious journalists and you get a different picture.
Read the post, don't put your own spin on it, i did not say i believed anything what i said was i did not understand it
It will all end in tears. A total disaster area..

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 20:35:51 pm »
Believe what you want Malabu..plenty of Brexit doom to be had, especially on the click bait stuff. On the other hand have a read of some of the serious stuff thats available, from serious journalists and you get a different picture.
Read the post, don't put your own spin on it, i did not say i believed anything what i said was i did not understand it
It will all end in tears. A total disaster area..

It will be if we stay in the customs union.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 20:49:28 pm »
Believe what you want Malabu..plenty of Brexit doom to be had, especially on the click bait stuff. On the other hand have a read of some of the serious stuff thats available, from serious journalists and you get a different picture.
Read the post, don't put your own spin on it, i did not say i believed anything what i said was i did not understand it

what you did say though there is no doubt there is worse to come. Why? whats happened since the referendum that warrants that statement ?. The only thing that has happened since then is the economy has improved, employment is higher and EU citizens are still arriving in the same numbers.

It would seem the only effect the threat of brexit has had is to improve things. If we had another referendum i am positive  that the leave vote would be higher than before, We are all wiser and more aware now of the Establishments constant stoking up of the fear factor with untruths and even more aware that most of them want to remain for selfish reasons.

Offline vivafuerte

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 22:51:22 pm »
It will all end in tears.

yes, yours

Offline erik_tonny

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2018, 09:40:10 am »
why are europeans so worried about brexit ?

The europeans are terrified that the brexit will not be a complete succes and that there may be a couple of brits staying behind ;D
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:16:06 am by erik_tonny »

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2018, 18:12:25 pm »
Looks to me like Teresa May has blown it. Got a bad feeling not only free speech has died in Britain...so has democracy. R.I.P.

Offline beachlife

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2018, 20:07:52 pm »
Ok this will not be popular with dagwood, but this is going to be long about why they are worried. Always follow the money.

From the moment it joined the EEC the UK has paid into the ‘project’, initially as the biggest net contributor, and after the reunification of Germany as the second largest contributor. The UK has donated billions of pounds into Europe (and quite a bit of that to French farmers via the CAP).

The EEC delayed the UK from joining in the 1960s until the CAP funding details could be finalized, and deliberately made it so that it would unfairly penalize the UK, including the idea of paying for it in part by a tariff on external imports - knowing that the UK would be the one country that imported most from outside the EEC.

The EEC rushed through the Common Fisheries Policy before the UK joined (it actually got it signed off on the same day the UK joined) to steal the UK’s fishing grounds knowing that as the territorial waters throughout the world were being expanded from 50 miles to 200 miles, leaving the UK, Ireland, Norway and Denmark (the four countries joining in 1973) with the richest fishing grounds in the world. They imposed this and then steadily over the decades forced the UK to put British fishermen out of business, meanwhile causing an ecological disaster and yet paying money to update the Spanish fishing fleet (a major part of said disaster).

The EU reacted to the BSE crisis by blocking exports of beef for several years, devastating the livelihood of British beef farmers, even though an EU commissioner stated that the purpose had nothing to do with science but was purely to protect French and German markets.

The EU took over control of handling Foot and Mouth outbreaks and handled it so badly that the last outbreak was a total disaster, only promising that it would institute preventive vaccines the next time it happened, but at the same time using vaccines in a much smaller outbreak in Holland.

The EU wetlands directives, enforced by the Environment Agency, caused widespread flooding in areas such as the Somerset Levels causing great damage to people’s homes.

The EU took a reduction in the rebate (itself won against very stiff opposition) in return for agreeing to take another look at the way the CAP was structured, but then failing to uphold their part of the bargain.

The EU gave Osborne a commitment that the UK would not be involved with bailing out Euro economies, but then almost immediately reneged on that promise, taking 860 million as part of the bailout package for Greece.

The EU has consistently pushed for greater centralization of powers in Brussels, even knowing that one of its biggest contributors (not to mention many of the smaller countries) were against it, and have consistently acted as if the EU is just a German-French axis, even with ardently europhile prime ministers like Tony Blair (who promised to put Britain ‘at the heart of Europe’).

The EU has not only been undemocratic, but often anti-democratic in its treatment of popular opinion, such as either forcing reruns of referendums, as in Denmark after Maastricht, or Ireland after both Nice and Lisbon treaties; or just ignored the results, as when the Netherlands and France both rejected the Constitution but they went ahead with it anyway, denying any further referendum. They then cap this by treating the UK as if it is a colony, an errant vassal state, when it voted democratically to leave the bloc but seek friendly terms with it.

Offline paully

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2018, 20:22:38 pm »
Thank you Beachlife..Pretty much sums it all up. I think its fear of the unknown that makes people want to stay. I really can`t think that there is any other rational reason.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2018, 20:49:14 pm »
Agree with the above. But you have to look at British politicians in general and successive governments and ask what the hell they have been doing over the years in allowing us to be taken to the cleaners quite so easily and quite so often. The present bunch seem as hapless as those before, and appear to be no less subservient to Brussels when it comes to looking after our National interests.

Yes the EU are bullies and will take what they can from us, but that's what bullies do...if allowed to get away with it. The real blame for our demise lies with our own Political classes who lack backbone, patriotism or any desire to see Britain get a fair deal. These are the guilty ones, and deserve nothing but contempt.

Offline dagwood

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 20:53:08 pm »
Look at it this way, in the next year or less the U.K. government will collapse.
After a very nasty election campaign no party will have an overall majority but the Tories and labour will cobble some sort of arrangement not a coalition but an arrangement together, if for no other reason but to keep the far left and far right out. Normal people will become paranoid. (This may have already begun)
Government as you now know it will be impossible. The divides in society will be many and the blame will be left squarely at the door of the Brexiters.
Politicians will keep speaking about the will of the people.
Somewhere along the line a new referendum will be held and the remainers will win convincingly
The prodigal son will then be ready to return to the EU. But will a welcome await?
Blame anyone or anything you like but the mess and it is a mess the U.K. is now in is totally of your own making and absolutely no end in sight.
Good luck for the future.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2018, 21:10:05 pm »
If we manage to get out with some degree of self respect the only ones I will feel sorry for are those countries left trying to prop up a disintegrating organization of the type beachlife has described above.

We won't need any luck... but you lot trying to get to grips with financial sponges soaking up the Euros like Italy, Greece and the East Europeans, may well need a large dose of it.

Offline beachlife

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 21:15:01 pm »
Agree with the above. But you have to look at British politicians in general and successive governments and ask what the hell they have been doing over the years in allowing us to be taken to the cleaners quite so easily and quite so often. The present bunch seem as hapless as those before, and appear to be no less subservient to Brussels when it comes to looking after our National interests.

Yes the EU are bullies and will take what they can from us, but that's what bullies do...if allowed to get away with it. The real blame for our demise lies with our own Political classes who lack backbone, patriotism or any desire to see Britain get a fair deal. These are the guilty ones, and deserve nothing but contempt.

Totally agree that our own politicians have a lot of responsibility for poor decisions made in the past. The calibre of person going into politics in the UK was always going to be reduced, as if you went  into politics to change things the Palace of Westminister was not the place it was. The real place of power moved to Brussels, it is there where the important decisions were made. I`m hoping a new generation of politicians will take up the baton, when they realise that they can make real changes in the UK once Westminister takes back control of its own agenda again for the interests of the UK.

Offline dagwood

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 21:18:06 pm »
If we manage to get out with some degree of self respect the only ones I will feel sorry for are those countries left trying to prop up a disintegrating organization of the type beachlife has described above.

We won't need any luck... but you lot trying to get to grips with financial sponges soaking up the Euros like Italy, Greece and the East Europeans, may well need a large dose of it.


I’ll remind you of this post. ALL of it.

Offline Ivemovedon

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2018, 21:33:30 pm »
I hope you do...and I hope I'm in a position to say I told you so.

The only one's who can stop brexit being a success are our own politicians incompetence. Some of them are trying their damnedest to put a spanner in the works ,but with luck we will prevail.

I'm not really interested in tit for tats or might's and might not's. Just want whats best for the UK and that's it.

Offline dagwood

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2018, 21:38:50 pm »


The only one's who can stop brexit being a success are our own politicians incompetence. Some of them are trying their damnedest to put a spanner in the works ,but with luck we will prevail
[/quote].

With luck we will prevail.
Last post you didn’t need any luck. Oh I’m reminding you already.

Offline beachlife

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Re: why are europeans so worried about brexit ?
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2018, 21:39:17 pm »
If we manage to get out with some degree of self respect the only ones I will feel sorry for are those countries left trying to prop up a disintegrating organization of the type beachlife has described above.

We won't need any luck... but you lot trying to get to grips with financial sponges soaking up the Euros like Italy, Greece and the East Europeans, may well need a large dose of it.


I’ll remind you of this post. ALL of it.

I`ll remind you of this.

Between 2009 and 2011, RBS made "capital contributions" totalling €9.13bn (£7.6bn) to its Dublin-headquartered subsidiary Ulster Bank Ireland. Over the same period, Lloyds transferred £6.41bn to its Irish operation, Bank of Scotland (Ireland), before dissolving the business.

The total – £14bn – amounts to more than a fifth of the £65bn UK taxpayers injected into RBS and Lloyds in 2008 and 2009. Analysts estimate that RBS transferred another £2bn later.

RBS and Lloyds used the funds to write off billions of pounds of debt loaned to Irish commercial property developers and households in the "Celtic Tiger" boom years.

After the bubble burst, Ireland's banks brought the country to its knees and forced the government into a €67.5bn (£56.5bn) international rescue, including £7bn from the UK Government.

No need to thank the UK because we help our friends out when they need it.